this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2026

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Mildly Infuriating

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298

California father arrested after repainting crosswalk, adding stop signs near children’s park (www.latimes.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by Valnao@sh.itjust.works to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 114 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

The city ultimately determined the intersection did not meet the required traffic volume for additional stop signs

For the record, this is 100% a lie. Every single warrant document (list of criteria) used by an engineer will have two magic words written at the bottom of the list:

"Engineering judgement."

That means there is no such thing as a "required traffic volume" for a stop sign or any other kind of signal or marking. If the engineer, in his professional judgement, agrees that one is warranted, it's warranted.

Engineers who hide behind things like warrants, pretending their hands are tied by them, are cowards and aren't doing their jobs properly.

[–] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 53 points 2 weeks ago

If 50 people sign a petition, you don't need to do a study. Just put in the fucking stop sign.

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 49 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Even if the vehicle traffic didn’t meet some imaginary quota, that says nothing of the pedestrian traffic. Just another signal of our car-centric society.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

That's typically one of the warrants. In addition to vehicle, bicycle, and pedestrian volumes, other warrants include things like vehicle approach speed, sight distance, and crash statistics.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

There are stop signs in the middle of nowhere Ohio, where there's literally a few cars on the road a day. I don't see how volume should come into play when you're next to a playground.

[–] Angrydeuce@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah here in WI too. Like on 55mph state highways in the literal middle of nowhere, as in the intersection is corn fields on every quadrant.

Its weird, but of course I stop. Im only ever stopping for the corn, but I aint trying to have some cop come flying out of the corn and tear my ass up either lol

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 2 points 2 weeks ago

There is usually some guidance, although the regulations are usually written with more wiggle room than structural standards because of varying site conditions.

However, the hill causing an increase to the speed of the car and that the area has a known pedestrian draw to it would tip the scales more towards installing a stop sign.

[–] Zachariah@lemmy.world 84 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Just install these instead:

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 26 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

hey that's cheating. that was how i crossed busy streets when i was walking home from undergrad.

i had a bright neon painted metal water bottle. I would raise it and make eye contact. just like that. like, this is mine, but it can be yours. you don't know if it weighs an ounce or 5 pounds. stops traffic remarkably well, especially considering the law and the sign everyone ignored right above my head said "stop for pedestrians".

yes, i did have a death wish you don't need to ask. living in utah does that to you when you've seen life on the outside.

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[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 55 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The city ultimately determined the intersection did not meet the required traffic volume for additional stop signs,

It shouldn't be about how much traffic there is. If people are going too fast and/or there's a visibility issue and/or there's danger of kids walking into the street, there needs to be a stop sign because that actually slows people down and makes it safer for everyone involved. Even my carbrain understands that.

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago

The panthers used to get stop lights put in in weeks that localities had been refusing calls from for years. You want to do stuff like this, get organized. And not dancing in frog suits organized, militant, community focused organized with educational programs and childcare for your community.

[–] SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 51 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's a hard line to walk. Being so afraid your kid will get hit by a car that you do something that could get you sent to prison, where you certainly won't be able to do anything for said kid.

The city officials need to be the ones facing consequences for this, not him.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 31 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Courts and juries are somewhat good at identifying bureaucratic incompetence. Prison is unlikely, but the fact he will have to appear in court likely a few times to resolve this is still not great.

[–] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

He will probably get a fine at the end of the day

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[–] Entertainmeonly@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Bureaucracy at its finest

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 39 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (8 children)

As much as this case might have been justified (which we just don't know without the traffic study), condoning random people fucking with street signage is a terrible idea. There are very good reasons not to randomly change traffic patterns, especially outside of a popular park; fuckcars, but also vigilante traffic engineering is an insanely dangerous game to play.

[–] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Nah, this road is a fucking textbook example of a bad neighborhood intersection.

Wide straight road with a hill on one side leads to unsafe driving speeds. Combined with parking at the intersection making visibility low for anyone crossing the intersection (cars, pedestrians, and bikes all included!)

This intersection needs intervention, and a stop sign is a bare minimum solution. Speed bumps and daylighting would also be justified.

We know we build unsafe intersections, we don't need a traffic study to confirm it, especially if you have a large number of residents with the same complaint.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Sure! And if improvement is warranted hopefully this will bring enough attention that it gets reevaluated. But that all said, even if he was right, being arrested for it is warranted. Hopefully he was right and as a result he's not punished, but if the only requirement for infrastructure changes was community complaint there would be no speed limits and the bones of traffic engineers would hang from every street light.

[–] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

No it's not the same.

People taking down speed limits signs cause they want to go faster does not warrant the same response as people complaining that an intersection is unsafe and trying to improve it, and only because the city is basically ignoring them.

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[–] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

Much like that park bathroom that was going to cost something like $2M to install in San Francisco. Once the residents and news got ahold of the story, suddenly the bathroom would only cost $100k to install.

[–] Doom@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

Our own neighborhoods don't belong to us.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

Brb, adding a bike lane to the nearest stroad

[–] IWW4@lemmy.zip 9 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

I don't have a problem with this.

Random people don't get to decide where stop signs go and do not go.

How about if someone just decided to remove a stop sign.

[–] barooboodoo@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How about if someone just decided to remove a stop sign.

Are those 2 situations equivalent at all? I can't think of a situation where adding a stop sign up would make the intersection more dangerous whereas the removal of one would almost certainly make it more dangerous. In your mind is the only way to regulate this to ban both for some reason?

[–] IWW4@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Traffic control is a massive issue that involves numerous factors beyond “danger”.

So yes you can not have random entities making those decisions, There has to be a single governing body.

[–] barooboodoo@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago

I agree, just addressing your hypothetical at the end and how that doesn't follow logically.

[–] joyjoy@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The cops don't care if the stop sign wasn't there. They'll give you a ticket anyway.

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

While yes, you get out of the ticket if you prove the sign was missing at the time of the infraction.

Edit: Just don’t give them any attitude or they’ll arrest you for resisting arrest.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 2 points 2 weeks ago

Unfortunately, yes, they have to "punish" this.

But it's still a great publicity stunt that has now gotten the eyes of many people, a new petition on the matter would likely gather a lot more support.

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[–] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

And once someone (probably a child) gets hit and dies, the city will say how sorry this tragedy is... will claim they'll do something, and then do nothing. Because words are cheap. Oh, and they'll act like this wasn't avoidable, there was no way to know this kind of thing could happen.

[–] devolution@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

Its quota season.

[–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

Good! Filthy criminal! Lock 'm up!

[–] DragonAce@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

This was in El Segundo? Wonder if they found my wallet.

[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Huh, always weird when I see local news on my Lemmy feed.

FYI, South Bay is especially car brained, even my LA. We have a major refinery, some car manufacturer HQs, and I'm pretty sure more mechanics per capita than most of Cali. Long history with the automotive industry going back to the founding of a lot of these little cities.

It's a shame, too. The beach cities are lovely places to walk and somehow have terrible biking and public transportation infrastructure. The people there can be a bit entitled, though (and it's it just me or did this guy do it right outside his fucking home? Lol). But I don't know a solution, it's practically every other day someone is mowed down 'round here by a muscle car, and the areas East of El Segundo have a lot more waking families since we can't afford cars.

A little hope, though. I saw they mentioned the Sawtelle area too. I used to live there, and not only did they 180 on that case, Stoner Park is now surrounded by mini roundabouts. So change does happen after this type of thing, and their jurisdiction is LA itself, not a smaller city in a city.

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

imo if you are going to start changing how the road is, start blocking it or start damaging the road to force a speedbump or hole. It's a lot cheaper than spending 1000$ on a sign they can easily just take down, a lot faster and less likely to get caught in the act.

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