this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2026
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[–] cogitase@lemmy.dbzer0.com 94 points 4 weeks ago (8 children)

Natural gas is used to produce hydrogen, which is then used in the Haber-Bosch process to produce ammonia from nitrogen in the atmosphere. Only about 6% of natural gas is used to produce hydrogen, so even if the price were to rise substantially, we could divert natural gas from other uses and have plenty for making ammonia. We also have other ways of producing hydrogen, it's just that natural gas is more established.

PEM electrolyzers paired with cheap solar in countries with high insolation can now produce hydrogen for less than the cost of natural gas, but we're only recently starting to see the construction of the large-scale green ammonia plants needed to accomplish this. Egypt is currently constructing a 100-MW green ammonia plant powered by solar energy. Even if you didn't have enough PEM eletrolyzers you could still just pass current through some salt water and produce hydrogen, albeit much less efficiently.

It's not going to be a catastrophic issue.

[–] Rusty@lemmy.ca 33 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (4 children)

Fun fact: Fritz Haber, the German guy that invented the Haber-Bosch process is the same Fritz Haber that developed a way to use the chlorine gas in chemical warfare. He was personally overseeing its effect in the battle of Ypres.

[–] als@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 4 weeks ago

Clara Immerwahr, who was married to Fritz Haber and was a successful chemist in her own right, spoke out against his research as a "perversion of the ideals of science" and "a sign of barbarity, corrupting the very discipline which ought to bring new insights into life." She ended her own life the day before he traveled to the eastern front to oversee the use of chlorine gas against Russian troops.

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[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 10 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (7 children)

Thank you for explaining the process, because the pro-fuel-cell pact doesn't understand that hydrogen isn't free and production is still heavily reliant on fossil fuels.

"Oh it comes from ammonia". Alright, where does the ammonia come from???

You're just moving the problem around, not fixing anything.

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[–] StillAlive@piefed.world 76 points 4 weeks ago (37 children)
[–] fizzle@quokk.au 24 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Hey. I quite like Canadians.

[–] Hadriscus@jlai.lu 20 points 4 weeks ago

I'm partial to the mexicans myself

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[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 17 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] PhoenixDog@lemmy.world 13 points 4 weeks ago

whynotboth.gif

[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 10 points 4 weeks ago

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

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[–] 1984@lemmy.today 74 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (19 children)

A lot of dreamers here who never actually tried to grow something. A lot of YouTube video knowledge but no practical experience.

Its damn difficult to grow your own food. I think buying canned goods and storing them is the best option for almost everyone instead of trying to grow your own.

[–] hydroxycotton@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

As someone who has been trying to grow tomatoes in containers for about 10 years, I can confirm that it really is difficult. It took me about 5 years to achieve fairly consistent results and get the hang of properly amending the soil, planting correctly, watering, pruning etc. And I still have years where the production is really low, largely due to fungal diseases.

[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 21 points 4 weeks ago

see what you should have done is just toss some rotten ones onto your driveway or behind the shed and ignored them and next year you'd have had the biggest baddest bitchingest tomato plants you'd ever seen

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[–] Nikls94@lemmy.world 20 points 4 weeks ago (8 children)

Bro my cacti died. Both of them.

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[–] dejova281@lemmy.world 10 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

The best is community roles in a collective. If you try to do everything yourself you’ll fail but in specializing you’ll succeed. For produce, one neighbor specializes in tomatoes, the other cucumber, the other onions, etc etc.. that’s how human society survived in tough times and that’s actually as a species how we’re supposed to operate. As a community. Another reason why everyone is so dang lonely and depressed. Anyways, I digress..

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[–] BigBenis@lemmy.world 43 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

You think food prices will come back down after it's all over?

[–] elvith@feddit.org 16 points 4 weeks ago

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

As if you'd need to ask that question...

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[–] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 34 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

You should always feel free to grow a garden, but you shouldn’t necessarily expect it to be cheaper than buying food. Especially the first year, if you don’t live in a place where you can just dig up some dirt and chunk seeds in it. Even if you do you should make sure the soil isn’t literally toxic first, especially since it’s common to have a buildup of things like lead or arsenic from now-outlawed fertilizers that can be absorbed by plants.

My grandparents planted maybe half an acre? Of crops for 10 people, and it was supplemental, not a complete replacement. It also takes a lot of work and can go to shit if the weather is bad. You can account for some of this by planting a variety of crops, trying to head off drainage and shade issues before they start, and with supplemental watering. But don’t expect everything to be super productive every year, especially in the age of climate change. My sister had some plants not put out at all last year (peppers).

[–] Siethron@lemmy.world 33 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

Plant a vegetable garden?WHERE?

DO YOU THINK I CAN AFFORD A YARD?

[–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I have a copy of this little pamphlet called Fugitive Gardens, which is all about gardening in small spaces, such as a fire escape.

It's all fun and games until there's a fire.

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[–] r1veRRR@feddit.org 30 points 3 weeks ago

Is this a good time to mention that animal ag is the most wasteful form of food we have? Further, consider capitalism and western rich countries. If the choice is between feedin poor people and feeding cows, what choice will the money make?

[–] trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf 30 points 4 weeks ago (7 children)

Grow a garden where? On what fucking land lmao

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

You bought land, right? Right!?

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago

Most chemical fertilizer is synthesised from LNG.

The two biggest exporters are Russia (sanctioned) and Qatar (all plants shut down)

[–] perishthethought@piefed.social 21 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] perishthethought@piefed.social 35 points 4 weeks ago

Ohhh..

Legumes are plants in the pea family Fabaceae (or Leguminosae), or the fruit or seeds of such plants. When used as a dry grain for human consumption, the seeds are also called pulses.

[–] BastingChemina@slrpnk.net 19 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (4 children)

It's not just fertilizer:

it takes about 7.3 units of (primarily) fossil energy to produce one unit of food energy

Assessing the sustainability of the US food system: a life cycle perspective

With all the fertilizer, heavy equipment and agricultural practices the food production today is very inefficient from an energy perspective.

Without cheap, abundant energy available the whole food production system is not sustainable

[–] kungen@feddit.nu 12 points 4 weeks ago

Exactly. The Swedish government or something did some study recently to determine if we'd be able to be self-sufficient under a longer time if we needed to be, as we currently have a lot of food imports. The conclusion was "yes, but there won't be as much food diversity".

However, they completely ignored the fact that we only have a ~90 days strategic reserve of oil, and that basically all the machining used for farming runs on diesel. And there's currently no goals to change that.

If we can't import or refine diesel anymore, we will starve.

[–] cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 weeks ago

It would be a hell of a lot more sustainable if we ended animal agriculture.

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[–] ZombieMantis@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It's a little late to start a food garden. You won't be getting any harvests for a while, and it won't be much. Best to stock up on shelf-stable goods now, and build community for mutual aid.

[–] JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It's spring in most of the northern hemisphere and therefore the next months are the best time to start a garden. Yes, chances are that you won't feed your family from it. But it's fun, it is a great way to get fresh food and if you have the option to do it, you should

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[–] Emi@ani.social 17 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (14 children)

How worried should I be? And how much should I doom prep?

Edit: doom prep might have been a strong word, meant how much shelf stable food to stock up on but someone already answered that. Just have normal amount for regular emergencies.

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 40 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

just a reminder that none of us can sufficiently "doom prep" and avoid the consequences of large catastrophes like those being discussed

beyond typical disaster preparedness: https://www.ready.gov/

probably the best thing would be to develop community ties - get to know your local weirdo farmers doing a CSA, make friends with EMTs, get to know your neighbors, get connected with a local community garden, etc.

We will survive or die together, individual prepping is not going to save you.

[–] HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 weeks ago (7 children)

Individual prepping is only meant to bridge the gap between distaster and community or national assistance/cooperation.

So have some emergency food, water, but prepping properly is actually things like learning to garden well, save seeds, learn to preserve, learn how to forage, build community connections.

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[–] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 12 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (3 children)

Prepping gets a bad rap from the crazy people building bunkers and zombie traps that people saw on reality tv.

I look at what my grandparents had. They had a nice garden and canned quite a bit of stuff. They had tools and enough stuff on hand to do basic maintenance and repairs on roofs, plumbing and cars. They sewed quilts and baked their own bread regularly. They had enough cash saved to make sudden purchases for anything else. They had a shotgun for emergencies.

That doesn't sound crazy or paranoid, but resilient. I know most people can't do all of that but it would be nice to get closer to the mindset that governments and companies are nice but may not always be able or willing to help you.

[–] fizzle@quokk.au 10 points 4 weeks ago

The way I look at it is, the easiest 10% of the prep might get you most of the benefits.

A few weeks worth of water, a few days worth of tinned food, that kind of thing.

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[–] Coleslaw4145@lemmy.world 14 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Good thing my country exports 90% of its agricultural produce, so if we start getting hungry then we'll just export a bit less.

(We learned the hard way a long time ago when we ran out of potatoes.)

[–] Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz 19 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Ireland was exporting food during the potato famine.

Don’t assume your food won’t continue to be sold overseas if the growers/wholesalers can make more money that way.

[–] Coleslaw4145@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

Ireland was exporting food during the potato famine.

*Britian was exporting food from Ireland during the famine.

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[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago

I mean, you exported 90% of your agricultural produce back then, too.

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Who wants a kitchen garden?

Who wants to care for a kitchen garden? It's not as simple as putting seeds into the ground and waiting until it grows. You have to dig up the site. You have to water it in a drought. You have to pull out the weed. You might even have to fight against insects, or use fertilizer. 19 out of 20 people I knew had given up on the idea of a kitchen garden.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Also, groundhogs will fuck up your garden, and they dig tunnels and climb fences. You have to basically build a big cage around your garden, floor included.

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[–] Bwaz@lemmy.world 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

In case anyone was wodering how much damage a single idiot in the White House can cause.

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[–] JerkyChew@lemmy.world 9 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)
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