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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

Where the evil villain will go on a rant about how society is cruel and needs to change and that they're going to change it. The hero opposes this for like zero reasons and somehow we're supposed to be on the hero's side.

Are we really supposed to believe that our society doesn't need to change? Are we supposed to cheer for the status quo even when it's shown to be terrible?

I also hate the sympathetic villain trope where it's shown that the villain is the product of abuse and yet their want for revenge is still treated as unjustified.

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[-] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I think the funniest variation of that was in Arkham City where the villains' plan is just "let's make an open air prison and then kill everyone in it to inspire a wave of fascist reaction across the world!" and Batman's stance is "well I agree with your tough-on-crime stance but I think your methods are too extreme!" At least in that Batman was trying to change the status quo of Gotham having an open air prison that it was actively airstriking by trying to make it stop having an open air prison that it was actively airstriking.

still somehow a better plot than Arkham Knight'swhere Venezuela helps Robin and Poison Ivy invade Gotham with robot tanks or some shit for no reason and Batman thinks that "Joker" is a communicable disease that he's caught by drinking the Joker's blood or some shit. All while zooming around in a rocket car on the sidewalk like it's GTA, except it electrocutes people it hits so they're actually totally fine, trust us that's how electricity works isn't it?

[-] DragonNest_Aidit@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Where the evil villain will go on a rant about how society is cruel and needs to change and that they’re going to change it. The hero opposes this for like zero reasons and somehow we’re supposed to be on the hero’s side.

  • The people are content with their lot but the villain just have to poison their mind with rabble-rousing.

  • Better thing is impossible, the villain's goal is only achievable by doing something bad.

  • The villain is lying and only use the rhetorics to gain personal power.

  • The villain was good but "went too far" and just fell down the slippery slope.

  • What they're going after is just not their right. It rightfully belongs to the hero or whoever they supported, as they're the only people in the society deserving of the benefits or responsibility of whatever they're fighting over by some infallible mandate.

Straight up anti-communist rhetorics from the cold war.

[-] StuporTrooper@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

What they’re going after is just not their right.

People having individual choices can't be sacrificed for the greater good, c'mon. Definitely no hidden ideology in there.

[-] KiaKaha@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Graeber has you covered.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s going on here. These “heroes” are purely reactionary, in the literal sense. They have no projects of their own, at least not in their role as heroes: as Clark Kent, Superman may be constantly trying, and failing, to get into Lois Lane’s pants, but as Superman, he is purely reactive. In fact, superheroes seem almost utterly lacking in imagination: like Bruce Wayne, who with all the money in the world can’t seem to think of anything to do with it other than to indulge in the occasional act of charity; it never seems to occur to Superman that he could easily carve free magic cities out of mountains.

Almost never do superheroes make, create, or build anything. The villains, in contrast, are endlessly creative. They are full of plans and projects and ideas. Clearly, we are supposed to first, without consciously realizing it, identify with the villains. After all, they’re having all the fun. Then of course we feel guilty for it, re-identify with the hero, and have even more fun watching the superego clubbing the errant Id back into submission.

[-] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

From this passage I can conclude that Graeber liked the film megamind

[-] Ideology@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

The only good superhero movie.

[-] DJMSilver@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Grabber been really quiet since Man of Steel dropped

[-] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

You know he died right?

[-] ToastGhost@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

and then the villian murdered a bunch of children despite it not advancing their goals at all, just to demonstrate to the auduence who is supposed to be evil.

[-] Soap_Owl@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yes, the rich sex pests that approve which movies get made feel like society is just about right. Big surprise there.

I think the worst one of these I can remember is big hero six. Where the villan saves his daughter from a corrupt military contracting company and goes to jail for it. They really don't make any attempt to justify it other than he broke stuff. Stuff being the corrupt military contractors office

[-] StuporTrooper@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago

Another one I hate is that Disney basically told us that Movie Thanos's* ecofascist plan was right and worked but is still bad. In Endgame society hasn't full on collapsed from the sudden death of half the planet, people are just sad.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier is far worse. It starts with the premise that the Earth was better for the five years after the Snap. There was housing and food for everyone! Everyone banded together! Not like there were terrible structures in place which would have perpetuated inequality and famine in favor of greed.

And the pseudo-Anarkiddies** who are the villains preach about the communal good, giving power back to the people, etc....then bomb a random building because reasons. Plus the Anarkiddies' reasoning doesn't exactly make sense. They were people who enjoyed the 5 years with half the planet dead, but they got moved into concentration camps when the rest of the people came back? Wouldn't it make way more sense to keep people where they were, then have the newly houseless people returned from the dead be put in concentration camps? No, because we have to have the main villains say "Thanos is right". Which in the fiction of the universe, he was.

*Comic Thanos's plan was way cooler. Killing half the universe wasn't his major plan, it was just a thing he did on a whim because he wanted to impress Lady Death. Dude was crazy and it didn't even work. Rational eco-fascist nut face from the movies is #notmythanos.

**Love for my anarchist comrades, was one once. But it's funny call these pseudo-anarchists kiddies.

[-] pooh@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Most of the time I can get over bad plot lines, but that whole “killing half the universe to save the other half” was so terrible that it pretty much ruined the movies for me. I couldn’t he instead just snap his fingers and double the resources? Or why not shrink everyone to where so they consume half as many resources? Also no discussion whatsoever of how resources are distributed and if that’s the most equitable way. I realize I’m preaching to the choir here but that really was one of the worst plot points I’ve ever seen in a big budget movie.

this post was submitted on 30 May 2022
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