this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2026
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UK Politics

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Regarding defence:

The conclusion is inescapable: now is the time for the UK to reinforce, not wreck Europe’s security relationships, both through the European pillar of Nato and through cooperation with the EU. That means developing its own military capabilities as the US pulls back, as well as exploring a UK role in potential decision-making bodies such as a European security council.

Regarding the economy:

Labour should be open to renegotiating all barriers to cooperation – including integration with the single market in a Swiss-style deal.

Thoughts?

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[–] HisArmsOpen@crust.piefed.social 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Please let us all remind the people we know who voted 'leave' about all the costs consequences vs what was promised. Remind them that these same people are re-selling their same bullshit to "fool them twice" with the same.

Nationally, we fucked up voting for Brexit. I have people that I haven't spoken to since them, but if I think they will consider a return, I'd be round to theirs for a cuppa and catch up ASAP to drop it into conversation.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah but then the like of farage like to claim that it's just the wrong kind of Brexit, and his would be better in some way that he can never explain

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 2 points 14 hours ago

Or the ole "10 billion pounds for the NHS" switcheroo

[–] ashughes@feddit.uk 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I understand the political calculation of Starmer's Brexit position as a means to get power, but the global situation with the US gives Starmer the political cover he needs to just full on reverse brexit and have the UK rejoin the EU as a full member. Trump has given him a narrow window of opportunity to correct an obvious wrong. Starmer needs to seize that opportunity, NOW!

Sure the UK won't get the same cushy deal they had as an EU member before, but it'll still be better than anything he's currently proposing publicly.

Politically it might cost him any Leavers who voted Labour (if any are left who haven't defected to Reform by now), but he'll earn some favour with Remainers who left Labour for the LibDem, SNP and Greens which might be enough to secure a minority Labour government. And, a Labour government moving to rejoin the EU could be enough to shoot the SNPs hopes of a majority in Scotland this spring and their promised independence referendum if they get one. Not that I support any of that, (I've never voted Labour and disagree with most of what comes out of Starmer's mouth). This is just the political benefits I see for Labour if they choose a different path.

Anyway, TL;DR: DO IT! Rejoin the EU today!

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 4 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

The problem with a burned bridge is . . you can’t get back.

Also the people whose bridge it was are pretty angry about it now.

Economically UK was f**ked before, with just Biden in office. Now that the demented rapist is off the leash, the UK is super-f**ked. Brexit was an astonishing feat of self-sabotage, and one PM isn’t able to set it right.

Though we all wish they were.

[–] mannycalavera@feddit.uk 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The problem with a burned bridge is . . you can’t get back.

Also the people whose bridge it was are pretty angry about it now.

The problem with bridge analogies is that you can always rebuild a bridge 🤷.

Also, who's bridge do you think it was? This metaphorical bridge surely represents the EU and cooperation between member states of which the UK was once part of. So by definition people in the UK are also angry... and angry to get their bridge back.

TL;DR: Use a better metaphor. No, wait. Rejoin the EU. Yes. That's it.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago

I’m just saying, there were a lot of special considerations that will be gone now, plus all the insanity spent creating entirely new processes and rules will be trashed.

I hope it works somehow, but then Leave always seemed like a joke gone really wrong.

[–] supamanc@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

True, but trying times make strange bedfollows. Just as it is our opportunity to justify rejoining, the EU probably, pragmatically, recognises the need for as much military and economic strength as possible.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

I wonder if the UK would have to do something extraordinary like give up the pound. Like to settle the question for some decades.

[–] eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

There's no way they are getting to keep the pound. Zero chance.

[–] HermitBee@feddit.uk 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

We should keep the pound, but tie its value to the euro at something like 1.25 euros to the pound. Functionally identical, but it sounds like the pound is better, as long as you're content to just look at the numbers and not give it any thought at all (which is probably the case for a lot of people who would complain about giving up the pound)

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 hours ago

Just FYI a currency isn't strong because 1 unit is worth more, like you can have 100 pounds worth 1.25 euros, you'd just have 100 times more pounds in circulation.

When an economy does better, it usually strengthen its currency and vice versa, but there are downsides to a "strong" currency, like your exports will be more expensive.

It's not simple all that, and you are absolutely right when you hint at bad actors misinforming wilfully.

[–] supamanc@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago

Absolutely worth it when the pound is so weak.

[–] Apocalypteroid@feddit.uk 0 points 1 day ago (3 children)

It's looking pretty grim at the moment isn't it? I'd like to say it's a no-brainer but there's a lot of ifs and buts to be considered.

Working on the assumption that Trump will remain in power until the end of his term then there's the very real possibility that he will invade Greenland and remove any support for Ukraine. Which will mean Europe will face a war, with no support, on two fronts. A war Europe cannot win. If we join forces with Europe we will be on the losing side and have to face any consequences thereof. It is also looking increasing likely that Farage and his goons will get into power at the next election and our politics will align with the US and Russia. If this all comes to pass then pragmatism says that it might be better to keep our distance from Europe and weather the new world order until either a) the political winds change or b) apocalyptic climate melt down gets us all fighting over guzzeline and Immortan Joe's milkers.

However, what I fucking hope to all that is good and holy will happen is: Trump will be removed from office via due process in the next 6-12 months, America will return to a semblance of normality, renew it's support against Russia and help a newly rearmed Europe force Putin out of Ukraine.

There's also the possibility that Trump will refuse to leave office and America will implode into another civil war, or at least have to refocus resources domestically to attempt to quell a rebellion. In which case all bets are off. I expect Trump would forget Greenland, but might be pragmatic enough to keep supporting Ukraine? Who fucking knows?!

I don't like Starmer, but I do not envy him. His domestic decisions have been fucking awful but I think, diplomatically, he's doing as best anyone could given global politics atm. We should have never left the EU, that much is clear. But whether closer ties with Europe is the best thing for the country is difficult to say with tyrants on both sides and the chance of the next bloke undoing any rebuilding in a couple of years time.

My advice: Start stocking up, learn a practical skill, get involved with your community and be prepared for the worst.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 10 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

The idea that Russia and the US are going to carve up Europe and leave the UK unmolested because of brexit is borderline delusional, as is the notion that Trump will be removed from office by anything other than too many cheeseburgers. There is no electoral math that would give the Democrats the ability to remove him, and there is no way they will get ~20 Republican Senators to defect.

[–] hector@lemmy.today 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

And if old man time impeaches him, the party is aligned with russia still. It is not turning back, biden was our chance to save what remains of liberal democracy and we squandered it.

The party is behind this new aggressive military operations. If anything it is worse with new leaders as the current one is imcompetent and mentally challenged.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

The party isn't "aligned with Russia" and neither is Trump. That's a bunch of conspiratorial nonsense.

Russia had/has an interest in the Republicans and especially Trump holding power, and they act on it, but only because of how bad they are for America in general.

Trump aligns with whomever last complimented him on how shiny and gold his asshole tastes, and it lasts until the next guy rolls out their tongue.

Biden wasn't our last chance, Bernie was.

[–] hector@lemmy.today -1 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Maybe 5 years ago that would sell to the sheep better. Now? Ha. He's blowing up nato in the only way he possibly could or trying to, and floating increasing military spending to make up for what europe buys to help sell it.

If you actually believe that is a "conspiracy," that isn't true, I've an exciting investment opportunity for ya, sucka.

[–] Riffraffintheroom@hexbear.net 7 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Blaming Russia is a coping mechanism that American liberals use to rationalize why their country is doing bad things out in the open.

When their country was doing bad things secretly, the coping mechanism was that “it’s complicated” and that the American empire was slightly less evil than previous empires, and that the idea of just not being an empire was unrealistic.

One day, their coping mechanism will be that [insert atrocity] is “a leftover trump-era policy” that is unrealistic to stop doing immediately and we need to be patient, and that they want to give Greenland back but “it’s complicated”

[–] hector@lemmy.today -1 points 19 hours ago

While true russia is a coping mechanism, and excuse so the establishment doesn't have to take responsibility for running doomed to fail candidates, it's also true Russia is sponsoring the far right, many outright fascists, across the west. To take their counties by elections, and then fix themselves in power. That has been clear for some time, since Russia started loaning money to the national front in france really, well before 2016.

It is a conspiracy to say Russia is allied to the US administration and far right challengers poised to take europe like dominoes just not a false one.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

He's blowing up nato

He's also helping Ukraine blow up Russia. Not as the reliable ally Biden was, but not in a "doing Putin's bidding" way either. Now he's capturing oil tankers from Russia's oil fleet.

Trump has always hated NATO.

[–] hector@lemmy.today -1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

He has always been in bed with the russian mob, that is directed by the fsb too. It's not much of a secret, denying it at this point just shows that you are susceptible to believing suits lying to your face.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

/looks around

Who's denying it? American criminal organizations have always had ties to criminal organizations everywhere, and the same is true of intelligence organizations. That's not even interesting, and it's not "alignment".

[–] hector@lemmy.today -1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

The president is an asset of russian intelligence. And even moreso to Israeli intelligence.

To deny that at this point is just, wow.

Yes, organized crime is vulnerable to intelligence agencies using them. The president was compromised by the Russian mob, and by extension the fsb, decades back. They are great pals.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

You never answered my question, so I'll make it more pointed. Why is Trump providing Ukraine with intelligence for targeting Russian energy infrastructure? Intelligence that Biden refused to provide BTW.

[–] hector@lemmy.today 0 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

You think because he didn't upend tens of billions of dollars contracts and agreements of cooperation that is proof?

Blowing up Nato is something he doesn't have the juice to do, not the least as the party is trying to use the military to ghettoize america like palestine. So he is doing the rah rah greenland to whip up a patriotic fervor to get the support to do it, which he might not get.

This president can't cross the military, or the contractors. I'm surprised you see a stated disagreement with russia and take that for evidence they are not in league despite you know, things.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

OK, so you don't have an answer or can't be bothered to read the entire question. Trump has gone beyond what Biden did. I'm done with your bad faith bullshit.

[–] hector@lemmy.today 0 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

As I said, the US president does not have the juice to upend everything day one. Hence greenland to pull out of nato.

As if he had the support in that community that he needs as much as any for the party's plans, to upset them like that. Your question is rather foolish to be perfectly frank.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

He didn't have the juice to not do something for Ukraine that Biden didn't do either? Fuck off moron.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago

However, what I fucking hope to all that is good and holy will happen is: Trump will be removed from office via due process in the next 6-12 months…

So say we all, but the midterm elections in November would have to be unbelievably successful for the Democrats to take power from trump, and even then I don’t know if enough Senate seats are up for that chamber to even do the needful should the Dems win them all.

I’d say the smarter money is on his various physical ailments limiting his potential damage, ideally completely. But even then we’d have an oligarch’s lapdog running things.

…America will return to a semblance of normality, renew it's support against Russia and help a newly rearmed Europe force Putin out of Ukraine.

I at least feel confident that one of those things will eventually happen. Hopefully both and then some.

[–] hector@lemmy.today 0 points 23 hours ago

Meanwhile your starmer is cancelling the magna carta without a fight.