Following that logic if you’re sovereign then it’s not really a riot or insurrection. It’s another nation engaging in war with another nation. The election wasn’t any of their business to begin with since they’re sovereign.
That “sovereign citizen” just lost a war against arguably the most powerful nation on the globe.
Fucking moron. I hope he’s able to grow and learn from this experience in a positive way. 🤷♂️
I've never heard of a SovCit that isn't a fucking moron unless they're a grifter. Anyone with a lick of sense would be able to figure out their beliefs are all silly.
Well I don't see a flag with gold fringe anywhere, so your words have no power here.
"Do you have a flag?" --Eddie Izzard
Haha, I forgot about that one. They do say that.
The whole thing started as a mail order scam targeting poor black communities, especially obviously people charged with crimes, who are desperate enough to believe this stuff will work. They think they are buying legal magic words that will make courts do whatever they want.
There's a seminal case from Canada that lays out their history and categorizes their arguments, it's worth the read just for the great research and writing, but it provides a playbook for judges and lawyers to properly dispose of these cases. They used to be a nightmare when they first came around because they would grind things to a halt. Now courts know how to handle it and they are some of the easier cases to dispose.
Here's the case: only 200 pages, ha! https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
Calls them OCPA litigants: Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument.
SovCits are what happens when people are willing to believe anything that makes their opinion right, and ignore anything that proves them wrong.
They use the law as a shield, but the second they want to break the law, they say it doesn't matter.
If someone showed up at their house and claimed it was now their house due to annexation, they'd be on the phone to the cops faster than you could imagine.
They want everyone else to follow the rules, and for them to do anything they want.
If someone showed up at their house and claimed it was now their house due to annexation, they’d be on the phone to the cops faster than you could imagine.
They actually have tried that (more than once) and it was harder to evict them than you would think.
Police had tried multiple times to get the squatters to leave the home, including using a helicopter and armored vehicles, The Sun reported. They were able to get a search warrant after pulling over Michael Lawrence Warren, one of the squatters, for a traffic stop and discovering his identity and criminal history, which included sex offenses.
https://www.insider.com/sovereign-citizens-moved-into-15-million-mansion-in-maryland-2021-7
That's different. That's squatters rights. All you have to do to claim squatters rights is occupy the home to the exclusion of the true owner under a claim of right. Bam, it's instantly a matter of landlord tenant law and you're entitled to summary process (eviction proceedings). Sometimes they can jam that up but it eventually goes through. Then the sheriff or whoever has to serve the eviction. They often combine their squatting with false entries into the land records. That's when it gets hard.
In the United States, squatting is illegal and squatters can be evicted for trespassing.[36] Real estate managers recommend that vacant properties be protected by erecting "no trespassing" signs, regular checks, tenant screening, and quickly finding new tenants.[45] In Miami, municipal ordinance requires that property owner exercise all legal means to remove squatters and police are empowered to take actions to remove squatters from private property and then bill the owner or lessee.[46]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_in_the_United_States#Legal
There is no such thing as squatter's rights in the United States.
Yeah, I don't know why people keep posting that on Reddit and Lemmy. Having been a former landlord, eviction is not difficult, it's just that some inexperienced landlords are not aware of the laws. You own the property, If someone moves in without an agreement from you, you evict them, or more accurately, you have them charged with breaking and entering, plus trespassing.
I once rented to a couple where the boyfriend became verbally abusive and would throw things at his girlfriend during arguments. The thing is, he wasn't on the rental agreement, she was. He refused to leave, I laughed and had his ass out within 3 hours.
I hope he’s able to grow and learn from this experience…
That’s some heroic optimism right there
Legendary really
Yeah, but according to the article he apologized to one of the officers he attacked, so they should just let him go.
So wait, why was he there to support trump if he doesn't believe in any form of gov....
Mental gymnastics at an Olympic level.
SovCits in courts and at traffic stops are an unending source of entertainment. "The flag has a fringe on it, therefore this court is being run on maritime law and something something anyway this is all illegitimate and you must find me not guilty!"
I also like it when they make their own license plates and try to argue that's their right.
My favorite was the group of sovereign citizens living in a compound, they keep harassing people and authorities to stay of their sovereign property. Then they had a fire and they're begging the fire department to come save them, without a hint of irony.
I love it when die-hard libertarians tell me that people should pay a fee to have fire departments come to their houses and put out a fire.
Lol they need to read a history book, that will just end up with arsonists working for the fire departments like the early days of firefighting in most large American cities
Libertarians don't care about history. They don't care about practicality. All they care about is not paying taxes for any reason.
You can even ask them to name a single country in the history of money that didn't have taxation. They can't, because there isn't one. But they don't want a moneyless society either.
Not just taxes, they want all the benefits of society without contributing to it at all. They want to be able to do whatever they want without consequence. They're literal freeloaders pretending to be "free people."
Or like ancient Rome where Cressus would show up to your burning house/business with his fire brigade, and offer to put it out only after you agreed to sell it to him. Think quick, cause the clock is ticking and the price is dropping every second
If there was actually some technicality that meant they were trying them in the wrong type of court or whatever, wouldn't they just end that trial and go and do it properly?
I swear I've heard this sort of nonsense strategy before...
Would it surprise you to know that most SovCits are also Trump supporters?
I fully expect most of them in my country are too...
I think some of them believe that the government has been replaced by some sort of fake organization that pretends to be a government, like a corporation or something, and as such that the proper court doesn't exist and so they can't legally be tried.
It is more that they believe they didn't choose to be governed by their government and therefore they are a citizen within their own separate nation. In their eyes, the court exists but has no jurisdiction over them.
"I have repented all my sins," Johnatakis said during the trial, saying he requested that Lamberth "discharge" the matter — a common phrase from sovereign citizens — since, he said, there was no "controversy" before the court.
During the trial, Johnatakis questioned an FBI agent, Michael Kiley, on whether he accepted Johnatakis' apology for his actions. Kiley responded that it wasn't his place to accept Johnatakis' apology.
I DECLARE REPENTANCE!
TRIAL BY COMBAT! Quick someone get him 2 big Mac's, a large fry and a diet coke...he needs the energy for the battle.
I love it when sovcits are hit by reality. They don’t have to accept it. They also don’t have to change their beliefs. At least they get punished and locked away for our safety.
You mean the sovcit magic spells and incantations still don't work?!
If they are sovereign citizens and not citizens of the USofA, shouldn’t they be tried as illegal aliens and sent to migrant camps in desert or to Gitmo?
They can all go live at an airport where all stateless individuals are warehoused.
Tom Hanks doesn't need their company
you can be a sovereign citizen any time you want by renouncing your citizenship. it's a real thing you can do and it has a process. and then you're completely fucked.
You generally can't be made stateless, from my understanding, so unless you have dual citizenship, I doubt you could.
not according to Wikipedia
the U.S. does not prohibit its citizens from making themselves stateless, but the State Department strongly recommends against it,
Strong Douglas Adams energy here
Aside from the fact that this isn't true for people giving up their citizenship (in the US at least), it's especially not true around the world. Lots of people are born stateless or made stateless during conflict or upheaval.
That's not the same as intentionally making yourself stateless though.
I hope he gets treated for his undiagnosed mental illness in prison.
Sometimes people are just stupid and/or self-involved, no mental illness necessary.
Sometimes it's only what they think instead of how they think that's disturbing. ... I mean, it's still a bit disturbing to see such an emaciated hampster trying to run on a rusty wheel, but...
Is it mental illness or just extreme stupidity?
sitting quietly behind some bars is exactly the mental help this one needs
So he's saying he'd like to visit Guantanamo? I mean, that is where we send foreign fighters....
A fool for a client..
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.