this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2025
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[–] minorkeys@lemmy.world 9 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

But then rich ppl couldn't use us to fulfill their endless ambitions.

[–] III@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

am·bi·tion

A strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.

Lost me at the end there.

[–] khepri@lemmy.world 19 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (3 children)

Love me a post of a screenshot of a reply to a post of a screenshot of a highlight in a document 🤣 Y'all do realize this is our generation's equivalent of a chain email called "Fw:fw:fw:re:re: LOOK AT THIS Fw:Fw: Huge Science News (copy)".

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 7 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Except a chain email doesn't have random commenters who link to the original or archives of the original

https://archive.is/Fv1u6

[–] khepri@lemmy.world 6 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

True, we should all be posting and sharing this far more useful version! ;)

[–] Uebercomplicated@lemmy.ml 2 points 12 hours ago

I will download this image and share it. I will do my part.

[–] mirshafie@europe.pub 3 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Link doesn't work for me. Here's a direct link.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 1 points 9 hours ago

The GOAT right here

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago

“Fw:fw:fw:re:re: LOOK AT THIS Fw:Fw: Huge Science News (copy

The reason those existed at all was because of how massively popular they were from the standpoint of short, sensational bites of information. That has never changed, but our reach and methods for sharing that kind of shit has increased by light years.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world -1 points 12 hours ago

Ok boomer 🤣

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

Well, yes.

If you‘re not profitable, you‘re nothing. As a business entity or a person. And the profitable ones take as much as they can and leave a lot of people out in order to accomplish that.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 4 points 13 hours ago

This makes rounds pretty often and it always gets mentioned in the comments that it doesnt figure in things like logistics and outlines a pretty bare-minimum living.

I think a much more achievable solution short and longterm is empowering womens rights and education to turn global population trend downwards, increase human rights and education in general to increase quality of life throughout.

Sadly that plan and the author's plan are directly contradictory.

[–] Rhyfel@lemmy.world 6 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

We will all bitch about this on here. Then I will try yo organize something locally for it and get no support. Its depressing.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

If you're actually doing ANY level of community organization, you're objectively better than most people on here. At least take that with you.

And next time you do organizing, and you should do it again, learn the right lessons. Target the right people with the right message. Promote in the appropriate places, create the kind of stir, buzz or drama that would get media attention, and so on.

No great activist or anyone who has changed the world had success from start to finish. At least if you've done it before, you know how to start it again, and that's a huge obstacle for most people, just knowing what to do once they get off the couch. Now keep adjusting from there.

[–] Rhyfel@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago

Thank you for the encouragement. If we find any success I may start posting about it here soon. We need to create a proof of concept that not only shows how bad capitalism is, but also that a system based on meeting everyone's needs works better

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 4 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Sadly many people don't have the time money and energy to support a movement.

Most people need support, and don't have much to give.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago

But a lot of people DO have those things, and just need guidance and support and a way to make their idle energy or money do something good.

This is where being an activist has power. You are basically taking up the mantle of being a manager. You are connecting the right people to the right causes and organizations and direct needs of people to make a difference. If you can get even halfway decent at doing this, you can move mountains.

and don’t have much to give

people have their voice (and therefore, their vote) to give, though

[–] yetAnotherUser@lemmy.ca 2 points 16 hours ago

You'd be surprised at the amount of people that think they are unable to make change.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Okay, sure, but how does any of this get billionaires to their next yacht?

It doesn't?

So yeah, that's not going to happen.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I fucking wish they'd spend the money on yachts.

At least the yacht sales man would get the billions and use it to buy a house, so the home owner would get the billions and use it buy a car, so the car sales man would get billions and use it buy cocaine, so the drug dealer would get billions and use it buy food.

Billionaires buying yachts would actually feed the poor. But they don't. They just hoard it in their dragon lairs for no good reason.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 4 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

This sounds a lot like "trickle down economics"

And we all know that's worked great in the past.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 6 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Yes that's it. Trickle down doesn't work because they don't buy enough yachts.

The proof is: If they actually bought yachts for all their money, they wouldn't be billionaires anymore. Billionaires wouldn't exist if trickle down worked.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 12 hours ago

If they spent every available dollar they had on yachts, then trickle-down economics would work. But, obviously they don't.

On the other hand, if you hand a poor person $1000, it's going to be spent almost immediately. Debts will be paid off, essential repairs will be done, groceries will be purchased, family members in need will be helped. That money won't "trickle down" because there's no "down" from there, but it will quickly spread across the economy.

There is some value in giving a rich person, or a rich company money. Poor people aren't able to make investments in the future because they have so many pressing immediate needs. A person or company might put some money towards something that won't pay off for years or maybe decades. So, there's some value in that. With too much money, investments are no longer smart because it doesn't matter anymore.

I'm pretty sure if they actually bought that many yachts, you'd instead complain that they're polluting the environment with all the yacht-buying and also they'd waste a lot of human labor on products which aren't really essential to society at all.

But yeah, your view makes sense from an economics point of view. The rich typically don't spend their wealth, but hoard it instead, which doesn't cause workplaces and therefore workers don't find jobs.

[–] QuantumTickle@lemmy.zip 79 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] zeezee@slrpnk.net 10 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

The basic-needs approach to measuring poverty sometimes yields dramatically different results from the World Bank method, depending on the provisioning systems that are in place. This is clear in the case of China, which we explored in a recent paper, and which provides an important example (Sullivan et al., 2023, Sullivan and Hickel, 2023). The World Bank’s method suggests that extreme poverty was very high during the socialist period, and declined during the capitalist reforms of the 1990s, going from 88% in 1981 to zero by 2018. However, the basic-needs approach tells a very different story. From 1981 to 1990, when most of China’s socialist provisioning systems were still in place, extreme poverty in China was on average only 5.6%, much lower than in other large countries of similar GDP/capita (such as India and Indonesia, where poverty was 51% and 36.5% respectively), and lower even than in many middle-income countries (like Brazil and Venezuela, where poverty was 29.5% and 32%, respectively). China’s comparatively strong performance, which is corroborated by data on other social indicators, was due to socialist policies that sought to ensure everyone had access to food and housing at an affordable price. However, during the capitalist reforms of the 1990s, poverty rates rose dramatically, reaching a peak of 68%, as public provisioning systems were dismantled and privatization caused the prices of basic necessities to rise, thus deflating the incomes of the working classes

you're telling me China isn't socialist??

maybe this Hickel guy is just a globalist imperial plant…

It is worth highlighting that the World Bank’s approach to poverty is convenient, from the perspective of capitalism, because it celebrates any increase in any form of production as a “solution” to poverty. Of course, for capital, the primary objective of production is not to meet human needs, or to achieve social progress, but to maximize profit, including by constantly increasing commodity production (Wallerstein, 1996, Wood, 1999).

And the core economies, including Denmark, cannot reasonably be used as a benchmark for development, because they have high levels of excess production and consumption, they dramatically exceed sustainable boundaries, and – as we described in the introduction – they rely on imperialist appropriation.

The UK has a GDP/cap of $38,000 (2011 PPP), representing very high levels of aggregate production and consumption, and yet 4.7 million people in that country do not have secure access to nutritious food (Francis-Devine et al 2023). Despite sustained GDP/cap growth in recent decades, most high-income countries have witnessed an increase in extreme poverty, as measured by the BNPL.

hmm 🤔

abs amazing paper 👏

[–] qualia@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

For anyone interested compare & contrast macroeconomics vs welfare economics. The former's primary goal is to maximize production/growth whereas the latter optimizes social well-being/Pareto efficiency.

[–] somebody2152@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago

you da real MVP here

[–] barkingspiders@infosec.pub 78 points 1 day ago (3 children)

living creatures that cooperate deeply will always outperform those that don't, rugged individualism may look attractive but you'll never reach the stars alone

[–] Taldan@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

I don't disagree with you, but why, then, did evolution land on making us so damn greedy and selfish?

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago

why, then, did evolution land on making us so damn greedy and selfish?

Evolution has always favored survivors.

But realistically, we've been shaped by culture and community even more than hardwiring from survival. A lot of things we think are set in stone are in fact products of social conditioning. In places with community and social consequence, people are far, far more charitable and have very different values.

It's only been recently when we all started living in single-family homes and moving away from family and friends at 18 and chasing after individualist dreams that we started seeing this trend towards selfishness on a community level. There are always going to be some class of people who have the desire to accumulate power and wealth, but below those people have always been communities and societies, and it's in those societies that power is often kept in check.

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 points 12 hours ago

We actually aren't that greedy and selfish when it comes to our immediate family or even a bit extended than that - our "tribe" if you will.

This makes sense. If your tribe thrives, you thrive. So you rub the back of those that rub your back.

But this kind of selflessness does not scale to the group sizes of modern society. People living in the same village or tribe before modern society would happily help a neighbour cause they know they may one day need the help of that neighbour themselves. People of today couldn't care less about helping the people that surround them, cause people rarely live the same place for too long and you interact (greedily and selfishly) with an immense amount of people who you do not consider your "tribe".

My point is that we are highly selective about who to be generous towards, and evolution definitely selected for that.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 1 points 13 hours ago

There's always a boundary of cooperation. Like, the wolf pack that cooperates among themselves but fights other wolf packs for territory. Our closest neighbours in the animal kingdom, chimps, fight brutal wars between different groups. And, even among groups that cooperate on the surface, there's often cheating behind the scenes. Like, birds are well known for forming pair bonds that last for life but apparently adultery among birds is very common. The best strategy for a society may be cooperation, but the best strategy for an individual in a cooperative society may be occasional cheating if you can get away with it. Even plants compete for resources like soil and sun.

A computer model of a civilization might show that the optimum result is achieved with 100% cooperation. But, we aren't computer programs, so we need to find a society that's as good as possible given the constraints of our animal nature. It's actually pretty remarkable that we've created countries containing hundreds of millions of people who feel some sense of shared identity, and are willing to cooperate at least a bit with strangers from that same country.

On the subject of "reaching the stars", the space race is the perfect example of competition. There's no way that Sputnik would have been put into orbit, or humans onto the moon if it hadn't been for a massive competition between the USSR and the USA. Within those two societies there was a great deal of cooperation, but humankind wouldn't have "reached the stars" from cooperation alone.

[–] minorkeys@lemmy.world -1 points 13 hours ago

Does forcing people to do what you want also count?

[–] Realspecialguy@lemmy.world -2 points 11 hours ago

Not a good take at all actually...

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 48 points 1 day ago (2 children)

But how could people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk maintain their living standards?

Did anybody think about the billionaires?

[–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 14 hours ago

Those morons don't even appear to live particularly well honestly.

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