gAlienLifeform

First, that was a really nice story, thank you for taking the time to write all of that out

Secondly, yeah, the intellectual colonization of Christianity is a really tragic thing. I was personally raised by people who had been abused by the kind of conservative and dominating religion you described when they were kids and who had left their churches, so I was allowed to believe whatever I wanted growing up and just relate to the Bible as a collection of cool stories and good quotes (as well as some weird and bad ones), imo not as good as Kurt Vonnegut but better than Tom Clancy (look I read whatever was on the shelves of my local library whether it was good or not as a kid).

What I'm trying to say there is it isn't a personal thing for me either way, because I never really got bullied by a bad church or had a strong family connection with a good one. But I have seen both of these things in other people, and either way, whether they hate/fear the church or associate or with family and community, the reflexive emotional responses those people have had were undeniably genuine and persistent. Those experiences (along with a lot of neurological research suggesting most human beings have brains that are structurally predisposed towards wanting a connection with a god-like force and that's why so many separate groups have independently come up with religions) have really convinced me that religious belief is an almost inextricably deep part of a person's psyche (a lot like sexuality and gender actually).

And yeah, there have definitely been concerted efforts by states and rich people and tyrannical assholes of all sorts who want to use this thing that has such a deep hold on most people to justify themselves since Constantine. But also there's a bunch of examples of this backfiring and religion causing people to rebel, from Martin Luther to John Brown. And also, there's a ton of examples of religion bringing people together from sides that shouldn't have gotten along and getting them to work together, from the Christmas truce in WWI to the American Civil Rights movement bringing white churches from the north to volunteer alongside black churches in the south to register black voters.

So, yeah, religious belief is a really complicated thing with good and bad aspects, but it is a powerful thing and something everyone needs to sort out for themselves one way or another. It sounds like you're walking your path now and I'm glad to hear it!

The Clash's "(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais"

All over people changing their votes

Along with their old codes

If Adolf Hitler flew in today

They'd send a limousine straight away

Everyone's afraid of their own life

If you could be anything you want,

I bet you'd be disappointed,

Am I right?

...

It's hard to remember, it's hard to remember

We're alive for the first time

It's hard to remember, it's hard to remember

We're alive for the last time

Speaking as an agnostic, this site is a bit too eager to shit on religious folks. Only a bit, because I know a whole lot of evil has been done in the names of gods and I know the frustration of arguing with someone who just explains everything with "god's got a plan" or some other unverifiable claim,

But ffs, read the fuckin' room. Fascism is ascendant and we need the biggest coalition we can get to beat it back into a corner. Besides that, Christians in particular are all about righteously walking into lion's dens in the face of certain death over things they believe, and honestly that is the exact kinda energy we are going to need from a lot of people if we are going to get through this. Also, doesn't hurt that they are organized as fuck and a lot do praxis like food pantries and other mutual aid on the regular. You don't have to believe anything to recognize we'd be doing the fascists a favor by not try to ally with these people.

I don't check in on the mortal world that often

Yeah that much is obvious

Everything you've said so far makes it sound like you think this is an unlosable fight.

Well, I do actually believe that, sort of. I think fascism given a long enough timeline inevitably sows the seeds of its own destruction and will radicalize everyone living under it to the point that they're willing to kill and die fighting it. However, the longer that takes to happen the more people and communities that will be irrevocably destroyed by the fascists, so I definitely do agree there is a lot at stake here and we need to push this process along as quickly as it can go whether or not it's inevitable.

Why resist if we are doomed to fail? Things are bad but this is a winnable fight with the people on our side and they're coming our way more and more with every stupid atrocity this dipshit government commits.

At my night classes, someone brought up Epstein and a student my age said that she thought it was released a few years ago. I don't think she's stupid. She has like 5 kids and was attending night school for more job experience.

Yep, so much of people yelling about "stupid" voters is victim blaming people experiencing poverty and the US's lack of social safety nets

In 2002-03, I told anyone who would listen that the Iraq war was a stupid idea, and that went so well (/s) that GWB actually won the 2004 election (unlike 2000)

By the end of 2006, almost everyone said they opposed the war and had always opposed the war, that they were outraged by Abu Ghraib and soldiers being killed by IEDs and etc.

In my experience, Americans aren't bloodthirsty monsters, but they have crappy imaginations and memories, so they have to actually see an obviously terrible idea get played out and be completely terrible before they will recognize that it is terrible, and then they'll tell you they knew it was terrible all along. I don't think we're much different than people anywhere else in the world in those regards, though.

I think calling out specific comments is unnecessary and a bit counterproductive

Well said

I'd say it isn't just similar to the KKK, it is the KKK. The Dems effectively kicked those losers out of their party by the early 1960s, but then oligarch Republicans who had been losing elections since the 1930s because the Great Depression so thoroughly discredited their laissez faire nonsense invited them in by running Barry "I think civil rights is a states rights issue" Goldwater for president, and that anti-social and destructive political coalition has been fucking shit up for everyone ever since.

e; forgot word