Welcome to /c/ScienceFiction
December book club canceled. Short stories instead!
We are a community for discussing all things Science Fiction. We want this to be a place for members to discuss and share everything they love about Science Fiction, whether that be books, movies, TV shows and more. Please feel free to take part and help our community grow.
First season is a touch rough... 2-4 are a masterclass on scifi. Fifth season is so so. They thought that tbs was going to cancel them so they wrapped up on the 4th season... Only to be renewed last minute.
Here's the viewing order The Gathering Seasons 1-4 Thirdspace In the Beginning Season 5 River of Souls A Call to Arms Crusade Legend of the Rangers Lost Tales
It's hands down the best scifi show.
Here's the lurkers guide http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/
Enjoy op!
Yes, 100%. It is by far my favorite show.
The first season is rough to get through, especially the first half. But the payoff is 100% worth it.
It's funny that one show can have some of the absolute worst acting and dialog in TV history, while also having some of the absolute best acting and dialog in TV history.
Even if everything else sucked (and it does NOT), the show would be worth watching just for the character development and story arc of Londo and G'Kar. Hell, just the burning elevator scene is worth watching the whole show for. 😁
Londo: "Help! Can anybody hear me?!"
G'kar: (quietly) "I can hear you."
I feel like people who don't like the show totally miss what's going on with it. It's not realistic. It's a bunch of people in alien makeup on a completely impractical space station. Some of the acting is corny. Some of the plots are corny. Some of the dialog would be better in the moment if random fans had edited it. But it's the overall impact that counts.
It's the visceral reaction to londo and g'Kar, and the way it keeps changing and rearranging. It's how I still get fucked up thinking about Marcus, or the gropos or brother edward. It's how i've watched the show time after time but i've only been able to watch sleeping in the light twice because it's just too much. Would that scene with John and delenn be so gut wrenchingly painful without the corny acting, and all the heavy handed b plots, and dopey 1990's future tech that pounds into your head that they're people just like we are? I don't think it would.
You forgot/overlooked 'The Road Home' on the end
I liked sheridan so earlier ones are better to me.
A lot of people will tell you the first season isn't worth watching. I'll admit that the acting is a little cheesier, and there are some episodes that you might think are a little heavy handed... but they set the stage for you to feel what you feel when the things they were exploring in the b plots come back in the main arc of the show. There will absolutely be moments 3 and 4 seasons in where you go 'oh shit, they set this up in the second episode!' Because it was heavy handed enough that you will remember it, even thoughbyou didn't get it at the time.
To an extent, you do have to get over the cheesy acting. I see it more like a play than a show with overly realistic acting. Some of the acting is a tool to get things across. And you know what? I don't know how well Londo and G'kar would play out without that cheesy background. There hasn't ever been better character development than those 2.
There will absolutely be moments 3 and 4 seasons in where you go ‘oh shit, they set this up in the second episode!’
First time that happened (season 1 or 2 - it's been a while), I knew I was hooked.
My absolute favorite callback moment requires watching the show twice.
Watch Babylon 5 through all the way. Then start it again. And wait for Delenn to tell Lenier "I cannot have an aide that does not look up. You will be forever running into things." And look at the expression on her face.
The sheer craftsmanship that went into this show.
The first season is a lot of world building and one off episode stories. They all move forward character motivation and the world, but it is the most difficult part to get through for most people. Once season 2 gets going, it pretty much doesn't stop til halfway through season 5.
I'd easily say that B5 is as good or better than almost any other sci fi show ever made. It's absolutely a product of it's time, but at the same time it is so forward thinking in terms of an ongoing multi season story arc that survives multiple major characters leaving the production with few hiccups. It is almost prescient in some of the scenarios that are explored, particularly in the back half of season 4.
I don't know if another show has done a better pairing than Londo and G'Kar. By all measures, I probably watched B5 way too young, but I adored it at the time and found it amazing on a rewatch a handful of years ago. Typing this makes me want to watch it again
Agreed. Had a hard time pushing through season 1 but when the link between season 1 and season 2 occurred, I was hooked. Great overarching and intertwining storylines with amazing character development.
IMO watch the first 2 seasons. If it doesn't move you by then, it probably won't and you can say you've given it a fair shot.
I'd suggest getting through the first season and into the second. It gets much, much better. the first season is mostly worldbuilding- there's narrative arcs, but they're mostly focused on setting the stage, so to speak.
As mentioned, season 1 is a bit rough, but the latter seasons wouldn't be so good without that foundation.
another comment- it was mid-90's CGI, so do give it some grace for that. But given the CGI technology of the time... they set a huge number of records. It should also be noted that the reason the two first seasons seem so similar, between B5 and ST:DS9 is that JMS pitched the show to UPN first, gave them an early show bible that they had for... a long time. They declined and decided to basically rebrand that as star trek (and viola, DS9). The two shows do diverge dramatically at the second season. b5 was first, though.
ETA: also, I've been thinking about the show a lot with Israel-Palestine stuff, being a bit comprable to the Centari-Narn stuff. not, like 1:1, but, specifically, Delenn asking "when does it end", and the rant about that. funny the things that stick with you.
I swear this exact thread happened like last month?
Look up a "necessary episodes only" watch list.
Babylon 5 is excellent... eventually. Most of season 1 is supremely skippable, and much of it absolutely should be skipped. Season 2 gets a lot better, and by season 3 you'll be watching every episode.
This was the list I found. I will give it a chance too.
Story Arc essential ones
Midnight on the Firing Line
Soul Hunter
And the Sky Full of Stars
Survivors
Signs and Portents
A Voice in the Wilderness
Babylon Squared
The Quality of Mercy
Chrysalis
I managed to dig up the list I used when I was rewatching it with my wife.
1.01 Midnight on The Firing Line
1.06 Mind War
1.08 And The Sky Full of Stars
1.13 Signs And Portents
1.18 A Voice In The Wilderness (1)
1.19 A Voice In The Wilderness (2)
1.20 Babylon Squared
1.22 Chrysalis
2.01 Points of Departure
2.02 Revelations
2.08 A Race Through Dark Places
2.09 The Coming of Shadows
2.13 Hunter Prey
2.15 And Now For A Word
2.16 In The Shadow of Z'ha'dum
2.19 Divided Loyalties
2.20 The Long, Twilight Struggle
2.22 The Fall of Night
Personally I would very much skip Soul Hunter. It's a bad episode, and it's plot relevance is only for one of the movies. I'm also really not convinced that Survivors is strictly necessary. I guess on that one I'd say give it ten minutes, and if you're not digging it then skip.
From Season 3 through season 4 just watch every episode, it's a really solid show by that point. Season 5 is basically a coda. Watch or skip based on how you're feeling by that point. The main plot functionally resolves at the end of season 4 because of network fuckery.
Thanks!
Nice! Thanks.
I didn't really enjoy the episodes/season dealing with the Earth separatists. Much rather have earth - alien conflict.
Loved me some Londo.
Don't discount world-building and character development. There's a scene in the penultimate episode of the series that seems simple, just two characters on a bare set, talking. Yet it hits so hard, because you know and care for them deeply after 5 seasons, you know their struggles, and you know what it means to them.
Though, not every show speaks to every person. I'd say stick it out until episode 8, "And the Sky Full of Stars," and then stop if you're not feeling it.
Also, remember that this show came out long before the streaming era. We couldn't binge it, we got one episode per week. That left plenty of time in between to absorb the story and speculate about what was yet to come. There are a lot of levels, mysteries, and philosophical implications in there that might benefit from a slower watch.
Oh, yeah, for sure. And no, worries, I'm not discounting world building. I realize that most shows these days have a world building phase where not a lot happens. But in the end the world building should lead to something exciting. I tried to turn my mom onto the Expanse (one of my all-time favorite shows) but she said she gave it a go but couldn't get interested. 😅
Certainly, I just phrased it that way as a lead-in to saying that B5 does definitely get to excitement, and is better for all the buildup. I watched it when it first came out, so at the time we had ST:TNG wrapping up, and only B5 and ST:DS9 as sci-fi on TV. That is to say, we were patient with both shows, because there wasn't much else (good) to choose from.
Nowadays, there are more sci-fi shows than I can keep track of, so even though B5 is my all-time favorite, I recognize that it may not be as good (too slow?) for first-time viewers as newer shows which benefit from a couple of decades of improvement in TV production.
(The Expanse is definitely in my queue. Just need the time to get to it!)
I feel like Londo and G'kar carried the show with their acting chops.
Personally the instant it turned into a Star Trek bridge doing space fighting stuff I instantly lost interest, like a switch turning off.
I wanted political maneuvering and explorations of the toll it takes on those who do it. There are a billion "officers on the bridge of a ship giving orders" shows.
Babylon 5 is a weird show for me. When it was first running, I religiously watched it. If I couldn't watch it live, I got upset and went around my circle of friends to see who'd recorded it so I could watch it as quickly as possible. Up to Season 4 I was gripped. (Season 5 was "meh" because of production shenanigans.)
Years later I watched them on DVD and ... the magic was gone. Watching one episode after another, without separating them by a week, just took the shine off of it. I didn't even finish watching the episodes on DVD; I think I made it to mid season 3 (and the amount I watched slid down and down up to that) before not bothering to continue. I eventually gave them all to a friend of mine and never watched the show again.
I can't think of a single show I've ever watched that had that weird impact on me: first loved, second bored. Usually shows I loved I keep loving, shows I was bored by remained boring, and very occasionally a show I thought was boring the first time got more interesting on second viewing. But B5? It's the only one that goes this way.
The first season of the show absolutely comes across like store brand Star Trek. The production values and effects look a bit weaker, some of the acting is a bit soap opera-ish, and it's often self-contained adventures of the week.
Seasons 2-4 are some of the best Sci-Fi put to television. You might feel like Season 1 is "gotta get through it" and...on repeat viewings of the show, there's at least four Season 1 episodes that truly are dead ends that might contain some world building but I still just skip them. TKO chief among them.
IIRC you stopped just before the worst episode of all, the fourth. Episode 6 and 8 are worth it and it gets better from there.
Looks like the consensus is...yes, give it another go (though a few warned that, yeah, it may not be all people promise).
Alright, once I can afford it and things stabilize I think I will. Thanks for the input!
Similar question: I was a huge fan of B5 when it came out but time has moved on, production values have changed, and I do tend to like edgier shows like The Expanse. I wonder if I should watch it again or f it’s best left in my nostalgia
have you ever watched the original battlestar gallactica and liked it? Do you like TOS trek. Im wondering if the special effects might be putting you off.
Oh, no, it's not that. I mean, the special effects definitely didn't age well, but I focus on the story, the suspense. I'm someone who can easily get wrapped up into what the characters are thinking/feeling/etc. With the right director, writer, and crew at the helm, you can have a sci fi show with two people in a room having an intense political discussion and have it be good.
YES!
Do you like political intrigue and mystery set in a sci fi universe? That’s the backstory that runs through the later seasons.
It is much more like an old school daytime TV Soap Opera in acting style and overall production style than like other SF shows. This is really jarring. Acting very inconsistent. Crappy production values. Like, huge CRT screens being used everywhere? Really? At this same time, Star Trek: The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine knew that hundreds of years in the future, nobody would use huge boxy CRT screens. They depicted thin tablets and terminals even though 1990s tech wasn't able to do that yet. There are so many things like this that jarred me out of the story.
The development of a few characters was cool, but it was like suffering through a mountain of junk to get the good crumbs. The plot had a lot of "I can see it coming a mile away".
Not worth it IMHO, if you already tried it and didn't like it.
The best lines are mostly Carl Sagan quotes, which I appreciated, but that isn't enough.
You're supposed to see it coming from a mile away. And when it gets there, the character moments hit you with a depth of feeling you're totally not ready for.
The boxy CRTs and all that, aside from being a byproduct of a lower budget, are supposed to make the setting feel closer to our reality. These aren't people who have transcended their societal problems. But once they do, they're not just the people from star trek. They're something else entirely. The whole point of the show is that sometimes we're horrible, and we can be so much more than we could possibly imagine. And the same people can be both those things at the same time. It comes down to your own definition of who you are, and what you want.
I am glad you like it, but the acting was most not good enough, and the writing generally not good enough to deliver. There are a couple of exceptions, but they do not outweigh the giant mountain of Meh that must be waded through.
And, no, the boxy CRTs took more money than the flat plastic slabs used in Star Trek shows from the Era (which they just pretended were flat screens and tablets most of the time). Trek only imposed graphics on those screens a minority of the time. Using CRT screens doesn't make it relatable. These people have interstellar space ships and giant space stations. CRT screen are just a stupid choice that do not make the setting relatable. The times it becomes relatable are due to the exceptions, like the character development with Londo. Not because they inexplicably use this one type of actually ancient technology.
I watched through the whole thing and... to be honest? I didn't like it. The acting was generally poor, the plotlines were overwrought and for the most part had poor conclusions. There were definitely some interesting moments and character interactions, but for the most part it felt more like a fan fiction of science fiction rather than a science fiction show itself.
Thank you for your honesty. 😆 I kinda had that reaction recently when I saw free Andromeda episodes on YouTube. Checked one out to see if it's as good as I remembered and...hardly. 🤣