this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2025
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I posted something. Then I noticed that it was formatted wrong! I went back to fix it in edit mode. It seemed fine in edit mode. I saved it again. It was still wrong.

The thing that was wrong: In source / edit, my sentences are separated with the charcters "period space space". This is a typing standard that improves legibility, which is extra important in effortposts. However, in the displayed mode, one of every double space had been eaten! Every post, every comment, mangled! Sentences are separated with "period space" instead of "period space space" and the text is slightly less legible for it. I noticed it for questionmark space space and exclamationmark space space as well. There's some secret life form eating spaces.

Testing behavior: Period Space: Sentence 1. Sentence 2.

Period Space Space: Sentence 1. Sentence 2.

Period Space Space Space: Sentence 1. Sentence 2.

Yep, saw it in preview, all the spaces are getting eaten. This is a crime against good style. I won't go so far as to say this is a hate crime against anyone who struggles with reading and visual processing... yet. But the site is editing my comment in order to enforce an objectively worse typographical standard (period singlespace). Literally 19 84. yeonmi-park on Communist Bear Site they automatically censor out your punctuation marks in order to make your writing conform to a worse standard, calling double spaces a bourgeois decadent waste of space.

Please help

(Also, should this go in /c/technology or in /c/hexbear? It's about both)

(Should I be submitting this as a bug report on github instead?)

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[–] ClassIsOver@hexbear.net 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm a graphic designer, and the first thing I do when I flow copy is find and replace double spaces with single spaces. Other people have already posted why (automatic kerning, monospaced fonts), but it's a vestige of the typewriter era, not best practices for the internet.

There are a lot of horrible type standards on the internet, like not auto-ragging, QWERTY vs. DVORAK keyboards, and horribly inconsistent treatment of ligatures, but relics of the typewriter days are not one of them.

[–] someone@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I really don't like bad keming.

[–] KuroXppi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago
[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

bad keming is just the vvorst

[–] Owl@hexbear.net 17 points 2 months ago

This is built into html itself.

[–] Soot@hexbear.net 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm sorry, friend, but this isn't a bug. This is a deliberate feature, common across the web, and it's to improve readability for most people.

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[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

This is how I learned to type also, and a person that I worked with on an accessibility documentation project last year finally convinced me to break the habit. As others have said, this convention emerged when all fonts were monospace, and it did indeed improve clarity there. It no longer does on modern systems, and in fact makes it harder for some people to read. It is no longer the standard and is actually actively discouraged for accessibility reasons. It took me about a week to actually break the habit, but it wasn't too bad. I'd advise you to do the same.

[–] reader@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Was there an accessibility angle to their argument beyond "makes it harder for some users to read"? (not that that's an invalid argument but I don't think it's self evident)

I'm not a double space user and don't necessarily think this behavior needs to change, but if you, like OP, subjectively find something easier to read and are accustomed to it, I don't think "no, its a historical relic and doesn't make a difference in readability" will be very convincing in that situation...

Ultimately, hexbear is not using a wysiwyg editor, but it is frustrating when there's no good way to make your post look how you want it to, whether that's for an effort post, a dumb meme with emotes or ascii art type drawings or whatever, and space collapsing is much more disruptive than newline collapsing in that way

[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The person I was working with was an accessibility librarian in her regular job (this project was for an org) and I mostly just took her word for it since I didn't care too much one way or another; it was just a habit I'd had from learning to type in the early 1990s. She did mention that it can confuse some screen reading software, which is wild but again I believe she probably knows what she's talking about--she is a pretty well known advocate in that space, and was up on all the best practices research.

[–] reader@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

fair enough. I wonder if/how modern screen readers still have such problems

[–] Muinteoir_Saoirse@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm an educator with primarily adult learners who have learning disabilities. So I can share a few insights into ways that digital fonts are handled for accessibility. These are guidelines, though, and often the best solution is to create text that can be tailored by the end-user for whatever best suits them using their individual accessibility software.

Screen readers (as far as the ones I've seen in action) aren't the reason behind dropping the extra space. They work just fine, they ignore the extra space and read the sentences out no problem. It's actually because of space rivers. Space rivers are an optical phenomenon in which space between words is seen as a river wending through text: in other words, the spaces can create a seeming pattern that are distracting for readers (especially those with dyslexia). That extra space makes spacing inconsistent, which draws the eye to trace the rivers (though dark mode has some success in cutting down on perceived rivers).

More important is consistency. Consistent spacing. Consistent kerning. Legible fonts. Extra space between lines is a huge help as well, All bold text can also be a big help for dyslexic readers, though less helpful in dark mode.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for explaining about the space rivers! Since html controls it all I guess it's moot anyway; I can write it how I want to and then html will alter it.

I'm not kidding when I say that the extra space seems helpful to me. I read the arguments about "modern kerning" but if I open a text editor on my computer, using Helvetica font, and type up a couple paragraphs, the double spaced version is easier on my brain. Less fatigue. If I replace all the double spaces with single spaces it becomes harder to read.

This is an interesting thread and I wonder if part of why I struggle with reading very long comments is because of the spacing. A browser extension that detects when there's only one space after a period and changes it to 2 might be the best solution for me.

[–] Muinteoir_Saoirse@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

This is exactly why text being controllable by the end user is always the best accessibility choice--not everyone's accessibility needs are the same! You're definitely not alone in preferring that extra space. I have had learners that have a much easier time with two or three spaces between sentences, and even a couple that preferred extra space between words.

Usually as long as the spacing was consistent the river problem was avoided. Though of course, many people never see or notice rivers, and that particular accessibility issue isn't one that touches their experience.

I hope you find an extension that works for you. I don't know any that add that extra space (though there are options in word processors to add that). Sentence Segmenter breaks lines after periods, so it's certainly possible for one to add space after periods I would have to assume.

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[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

My total shot in the dark guess would be that it messes up the rhythm of reading on some implementations, with extra long pauses between sentences. Software can be very weird though so who knows.

[–] KuroXppi@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The head of legal at my last job used double space after fullstop, which she said was for legibility.   I don't think it really improved legibility.   Rather, it made me mentally pause longer and uncomfortably between sentences, and it looked noticeably unnatural.

[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Everyone in this thread is wrong. Double space is good practice. Modern typesetting makes it unnecessary? Who cares? The layout engine can just ignore the space and function semantically. If it doesn't, its broken and should be fixed. On the other hand, text editors designed for adults with functions that operate on sentences as a unit use the double space to distinguish between an abbreviation and the end of a sentence. Emacs users are a powerful enemy.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

I acknowledge people's objections but especially since html makes it entirely moot, they can pry my double spaces from my cold dead tentacles. If I'm writing something I truly do find it easier to scan, return to where I left off if/when I get distracted as I invariably do, read, and review with double spaces. It looks wrong when it's all single spaced. It's also muscle memory at this point to double space and doesn't seem worth training myself out of if the browser is just going to rewrite it anyway.

Here, I'll try to rewrite that with single spaces.

Yeah that sucked in a bad way.

[–] Maturin@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

Team double space represent!

[–] XxFemboy_Stalin_420_69xX@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

you're not typing on a typewriter, the double space after a period is purely unnecessary and distracting for the reader

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

Femboy Stalin, have you considered that I might actually be typing on a typewriter and then using OCR to copy the text from the paper into a text document which I then copy/paste into the comment field of Hexbear dot net?

Apparently it's either an html standard or a browser setting; either way I can type my way and the browser will display it the standard way for others so I guess it works out. When I'm reading my own writing I find the double space helpful, not distracting or unnecessary, while the single space makes it harder to parse.

[–] Edie@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

This is a feature of web browsers, they will "collapse whitespace"

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think this is the technically correct answer and the reason you can use a Non Line Breaking Space code   to     add     spaces     to      HTML       documents.

[–] Edie@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It is, cuz if I go into developer tools and check the paragraphs the two spaces are still there.

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[–] Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If this is a bit; hilarious. If its a sincere post, then I'm sorry OP you're a relic of a time that no longer exists. Double spacing is excellent for improving readability on monospaced fonts e.g. from typewriters or in terminal windows.

This is a sentence separated by 2 spaces. As can be seen it clearly de-marks the gap much wider than the gap between characters that occurs in monospace fonts. This helps readability.

This is a sentence separated by 1 space. It is a little harder to see the period space in a monospace due to many characters having a gap between them.

But this isn't a relevant property in modern fonts that have different layout dependent not just on the character width (5 l's take less space than 5 m's; lllll mmmmm) but also the gaps are consistent between characters depending on the preceding and following characters, by allowing overlap in spaces by clever kerning e.g. between the Y and the o of You, note how the o sits under the arms of the Y. This means the gaps between characters on modern fonts are consistent, and the single space is clear to see for legibility. Trying to force widen the gap on a period using double spaces with modern kerning is not better for legibility and can in some instances make it worse for readability and cause other technical issues.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

I'm genuinely glad you find some hilarity in my mostly serious post :) .

Thanks for the technical explanation and example about monospacing and kerning. It's interesting and doesn't change how I feel about the spaces, but this discussion is helping me notice some things.

Maybe it's not "legibility" that the double space improves, but speed of recovering my place when I lose it. Or pacing. Or both. Because I definitely get lost in the text easier when there's just the single space. I don't know how many times a minute my eyes dart away from the text for a fraction of a second, but the number is greater than zero, and that big recognizable gap between sentences makes it easier to recover my place

[–] Aradino@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago

A full stop and a space is perfectly legible and is used most places. I think double spacing like that is for typewriters

[–] stupid_asshole69@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

By allah you people are dogs!

Double spacing after the period improves readability on all fonts not just monospaced ones! When reading a paragraph of sentences it’s much easier to pick out the markers between them as you scan ahead when those have both the punctuation mark and a different spacing!

There could be some argument made for spacing after sentences the same as between words if our forum were using accursed full justification but we’re left justified.

[–] Alice196498@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago (20 children)

This is a feature of Markdown, which is what Hexbear uſes to format poſts. What Operating Syſtem are you uſing ? I uſe em quads between ſentences, as is the common practice in older printing, but an en quad and a ſpace alſo works (ſometimes even better than an em quad due to allowing for more expanſion in juſtified lines), as was done on the Linotype machines. For Windows, it’s eaſy to make an A‌utoHotKey ſcript to replace the double ſpace with ſomething more workable, and on Linux, there are various options available.

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[–] cristian64@reddthat.com 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

A period (already a small character) + a space is sufficient to separate sentences.

Also, if there are more than one space together, it's hard to count them. That is, the more spaces you keep together, the harder it gets to know whether you've put the correct number of spaces.

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[–] stupid_asshole69@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

This could be fixed site wide by replacing double spaces in the content sent to a browser with space then something like emsp14, which would force the browsers html rendering engine to not automatically compress the white space.

There’s a real subtlety to the creation and refinement of the attention economy.

[–] communism@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This isn't a bug. It's a feature of the way browsers render HTML (and possibly whatever Lemmy is using to render Markdown is automatically stripping extra spaces anyway). It means that you can format Markdown/HTML however you like (e.g. inserting line breaks in the middle of paragraphs that will be rendered as spaces, or indenting HTML to be more readable to you) whilst it's still user-friendly when rendered.

You could use   if you want things to appear double-spaced.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Thanks!  I'll probably just let it censor me, because typing &nbsp after every sentence would mess up my muscle memory, and it seems many people hate it for the way they process text.  Well, maybe I'll try just this one time.  I see there's quite the tradeoff; it looks better in preview mode but so much worse in composition mode.  This is perhaps the worst of both worlds!  Ah, the true nature of compromise, that everyone should lose.

[–] communism@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

You could use some kind of keyboard macro to replace <space><space> with &nbsp;&nbsp; if it's important to you.

Imo someone who wants to see two spaces after each sentence can easily make a userscript or browser add-on that does that. People will be fine reading your posts as-is.

[–] Esoteir@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

if you're on windows you can cheese it by using the alt-0160 shortcut, it generates a no-break space that's read as a character by html instead of a space, I think in linux it should be ctrl+shift+U->00A0?

anyway once you make one of them or copy it from this comment you can ctrl-c and ctrl-v it for ease of use for the rest of time fidel-salute

For instance: One Space. Two Space.  Three Space.       bazinga                        fuck     shit           lmaooo                                poop

[–] InevitableSwing@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't understand your examples at all.

You could edit it to use code style. With the "backwards tick" character or whatever it's called.

Or by adding four spaces at the beginning of a line
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[–] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Genuine question, are you a native speaker?

[–] dead@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago
[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

It’s how markdown works

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