this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2025
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Consider the choice idiocies.

Racism is justified BECAUSE THOSE ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT RACES

This applies to other problems such as the death penalty

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[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 55 points 1 week ago (3 children)

This is so close to making a valid critique, that using different species as a metaphor for race relations is poisoning the well because even if they start getting along and work out their differences, it’s still presenting races as, metaphorically, different classes of organisms. But then he completely disregards that in the last paragraph and weirdly starts conflating sci-fi/fantasy media that’s subversively racist with anti-racist media.

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's the typical chud thing of looking at hollow and disingenuous liberal messaging and concluding that the problem is that it's attempting to be better and not that there's a rancid core of implicit racism underneath it.

Like the liberal view on race and racism is still fundamentally white supremacist and orientalist, and their concept of anti-racism is like this patronizing thing where the point is demonstrating their own goodness and collecting sufficiently conformist minorities like pokemon out of perceived self-benefit, and not an actual principled opposition to bigotry, cruelty, and the violent consequences of an order built on them. So their messaging is inherently confused and contains this sort of "well yeah the monstrous other is inscrutable and alien, but perhaps a few of them may rise to the status of honorary humans" core to it.

This is why any sort of fantasy race thing beyond simple aesthetics has to fundamentally make all the sapient species people with competing material interests and inherited privilege, making for a commentary on class or imperial/colonial relations rather than an allegory for race and culture.

[–] Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 26 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah this post was "Had me in the first half" -worthy. There's a serious problem in media representing racism with superpowers or different species. Especially if it's just white people with superpowers being discriminated against, because IRL they wouldn't be persecuted. They would use their powers to do crakkker shit the same way they use military tech.

[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 16 points 1 week ago

Alan Moore gets that.

[–] sodium_nitride@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago

I think it depends. There are really 2 types of "racism".

There are racialised class systems created by nation states and imperialist powers to supress wages and fuel industries. This type of racism has literally nothing to do with physical characteristics, and fantasy races poison the well in this case.

But it is also the type of racism that fantasy mostly ignores. Most media focuses on the liberal theory of racism, in which races with differing characteristics cannot reconcile their differences due to a lack of mutual understanding. In this case, making the different races really be different is not necessarily a bad allegory. It is just an exaggerated presentation of what writers perceive the racial conflict to be.

[–] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 40 points 1 week ago

Africa = dumb warmongering orks

China = genetically evil

Yeah, OK, uh huh hitler-detector

[–] Rom@hexbear.net 38 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What no media literacy does to a mfer

[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 21 points 1 week ago

Given the quality of the writing, they're missing literacy on a much more fundamental level.

[–] godlessworm@hexbear.net 34 points 1 week ago

bro really thinks he had a brilliant idea, and that idea is “racism is okay if they’re different”

this dude is very different from me. thats all im gonna say.

[–] Sickos@hexbear.net 32 points 1 week ago (2 children)

ANY ELF THAT WORKS IN THE MINES DESERVES LOVE AND SUPPORT, SAME AS ANY DWARF THAT LIVES IN A TREEHOUSE.

[–] sodium_nitride@hexbear.net 30 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is what the elves in the mine look like because they are discriminated against by the vicious class system that prefers drawfs for mine work.

[–] somename@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago

I bet none of the hard hats fit, and all the tunnels make them stoop because they’re too tall, and corporate didn’t think it was worth the extra expense to account for them. It’s very sad.

[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago

as long as you pick up the fuckin' nitra i marked god damn it you got a beard in my book

[–] chgxvjh@hexbear.net 31 points 1 week ago

These guys are one popular science article away from demanding minorities to be genocided.

[–] Lussy@hexbear.net 28 points 1 week ago

Typed out all that shit without knowing the concept of ‘species’

[–] thelastaxolotl@hexbear.net 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Thats one of the worst new subs, you get some of the worst takes on media with like 2k upvotes

[–] Frivolous_Beatnik@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

sadly they've been around for like 10 years at this point, the takes have always been shit though

[–] booty@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Got one of those classic power tripping mod teams, too. They have a rule that says "Don't downvote" which is completely unenforceable since there is no way to tell where downvotes are coming from on Reddit, and in fact Reddit itself essentially "downvotes" stuff automagically specifically to make it impossible to tell who is voting in what ways.

But if you get into an argument with a mod, they'll just accuse you of downvoting and permaban you. Even though that's literally impossible to prove/test.

[–] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Doesn't reddit have that info on the backend? I coudl have sworn people got yelled at for up voting stuff before

[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 7 points 1 week ago

Yeah, back in the /r/cth quarantine days you would get messages and even bans from reddit for upvoting John Brown-posting.

[–] booty@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

Certainly, the admins have access to it. But mods don't.

[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Racism and genocide was okay before we developed Out of Africa theory

[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I was actually trying to look this up yesterday, does anyone know what people believed before the Out of Africa theory? Did they actually believed human “races” constituted different species or was there some concept that all of humanity came from the same source even if they didn’t know it was in Africa?

[–] booty@hexbear.net 20 points 1 week ago

I think the real ancient ancient peoples pretty much thought that their gods were only interested in local affairs. You know, we descended from x god or y god made us, but he didn't make those funny looking people we ran into one time, those people were made by some other god we're not familiar with.

But I'm certainly no historian, I'd also be curious if anyone has an informed answer here.

[–] Outdoor_Catgirl@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago

Iirc Mormons believe that black people are the descendants of Cain and were turned black because of their ancestors sin of murder. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a Mormonism expert

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 22 points 1 week ago (2 children)

So this guy would gladly sell out the X-Men to the sentinels because they're different

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago (4 children)

the mutants having massively destructive individual powers does somewhat undermine the coherence of whatever allegory you want to use them for. You could make all the mutations benign but then you probably stop being a superhero comic.

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 15 points 1 week ago

This is mainly because the writers forgot that the majority of mutants weren't supposed to be able to serve as walking artillery

Most were just supposed to be kinda weird looking

But you know, gotta make guys to sell toys

[–] sodium_nitride@hexbear.net 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I know very little about x-men, but I have seen examples people bring up of x-men that have very benign (and even self harming) powers.

Not to mention that it makes even less sense to discriminate against people with superpowers. Imagine if the stone wall rioters had an omega level mutant on their side. Countries would be lining up with offers to mutants with powerful abilities.

[–] Frivolous_Beatnik@hexbear.net 14 points 1 week ago

Imagine if the stone wall rioters had an omega level mutant on their side

sicko-wistful

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Mutants live in a world where non-mutants also have superpowers. I don't know if this is a commentary on how bigotry makes no fucking sense.

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 14 points 1 week ago

They try to square this circle constantly and it never really works out

Like, Marvel once tried the angle of Nobody is scared of the Avengers and the Fantastic Four because they have PR teams, but mutants don't so they're fair game

But the Avengers have had mutants on their team multiple times and THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE THING is that people are kind of scared of him which just reinforces his self-loathing!

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

most of the good mutant rights kinda stories (that i've heard of anyway) aren't during the big crossover events so in an additional bit of incoherence they often aren't actually considering that at all in the plot.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago

It's something I realized when I thought how nobody thinks Spiderman is some mutant with spider powers even though he lives in a universe where mutants exists with comparable powers to Spiderman or how the newspaper editor dude (I forget his name) doesn't once call him a mutant even though the easiest way to turn the public against Spiderman would be to tap into the mutantphobia that's rampant within the Marvel universe.

[–] XiaCobolt@hexbear.net 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

the mutants having massively destructive individual powers does somewhat undermine the coherence of whatever allegory you want to use them for.

Being a mutant is a "floating signifier". The X-men are fictional so you can use them to tell a story about whatever you want, racism, being gay or trans. But it only makes sense in the context of the moment of the story, just like all superhero comics don't make sense with timelines, and characters appearing in crossovers when it's impossible etc

But for a really long time mutants have also been a stand in for being Jewish with Asteroid M/Genosha/Utopia/Krakoa/whatever being Israel. With some writers who are zionists thinking this is cool and good, and others who are more Israel-critical (or at least as much as Marvel writer is allowed to be) writing stories about why this is a bad thing.

The pro-Israel writer suggesting that Matt-with-two-extra-arms has to go and live in the mutant nation because he's inherently in danger by being a mutant, but the Israel-skeptic writer suggesting the fact that the mutant nation is always threatening to destroy mankind or at the least has a tense relationship with the rest of the world, actually makes things more dangerous for Matt-with-two-extra-arms.

Josie Rietmann and Becca Petunia who are both trans women, Jewish and anti-Zionist talk about this in their podcast "Beyond Tomorrow"

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

i'm more familiar with genosha from the 90s cartoon where it was a slave rebellion, but i can see how shitbags could do a zionism with the concept

[–] XiaCobolt@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

In the comics the Israel thing was more overt. But in a what if all the stuff we made up and mythologized about Israel was actually true. Like freed from genuine oppression while under constant threat of genocide, actually egalitarian and multicultural etc.

[–] Bob_Odenkirk@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Well kinda yeah, any real functional society would and probably should take pretty serious measures to limit living super-weapons.

They're not 'different' in the way that different humans are different, they're potentially an existential threat to society.

[–] Zuzak@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They're not 'different' in the way that different humans are different, they're potentially an existential threat to society.

Kind of an odd thing to say in a community of revolution enjoyers wonder-who-thats-for

[–] Bob_Odenkirk@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago

‘Society’ as in human life itself.

It’s not like AES countries don’t ban personal WMDs.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 19 points 1 week ago

They had to ask, "why doesn't sci-present the space-KKK as justifiable in some way?"

Like bro media support for racism comes from liberal whitewashing and a need to be slightly more subtle than that, like the pro-genocide antisemitism and literal cribbing from Nazis of Attack on Titan that 99% of viewers miss, they have to have it explained to them.

[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago

Cool, hope he doesn’t mind that I hate vampires for being haughty, bourgeois, arrogantly looking down on other races, inbred, and scared of spices.

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago

Steve from Asia is buoyant?

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 10 points 1 week ago

princess weekes recently did a video on fantasy racism that i'll watch eventually

[–] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Wait, I am dumb. He has a point yeah? Space aliens don't map to rascism because rascism is based on nothing and space aliens could actually have differences you would need to be aware of. Like, a xenomorphs only water fountain might be needed if our biology was incompatible?

[–] sodium_nitride@hexbear.net 15 points 1 week ago

In actuality, mapping space aliens to bigotry (racism, speciesm) is not really far fetched

Humans already have big physical differences with differing needs. Example - cis female body type vs rest (one needs sanitary pads the others don't), or adult vs child (different heights, weights, food requirements), or elderly vs young, able bodied vs handicapped. The differences between generic humans and space aliens is only a more exaggerated, in some sense. Even fantasy races and space aliens are often based on human characteristics. A cis human man is physically closer to a generic cis male fantasy elf than a cis woman.

Furthermore, even if xenomorphs are completely different to us, it doesn't mean that we should discriminate against them, or hate them or go to war with them.

On a narrative level, fantasy or sci fi often exaggerates existing aspects of human society. Magic doesn't exist in reality, but differences in magical talent can be used as allegories about ableism, competition and meritocracy. Planet destroying super weapons don't exist, but can be allegories for nuclear weapons. So exaggerating differences between species/races to make allegories for bigotry has its basis in the very structure of the types of narratives.

[–] ThermonuclearEgg@hexbear.net 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yes, that is a valid critique minus the whole "genetically evil" bit and other nonsense. See https://hexbear.net/comment/6591888 and its parent comment