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-What level of treatlerism are you on? - Idk, eating bananas out of season. - Check this out
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62% of high-income earners of over $300,000 a year in the πΊπΈ United States 'still struggle with credit card debt', according to a survey by BHG Financial. linky
there's people who are shit at money and have stupid high income, so they manage to cover their payments but some unholy fraction of their monthly ass goes to debt servicing. it's insane to see.
i think they're less common now than they were in earlier times, because generally the ones i've known are like on the bad side of 50.
like i knew this guy. made quarter million a year in a LCOL area. basically, a prince of the province. tenured, full prof, academic phd on an administration track. couldn't just have a hobby like a normal person, had to have all the top of the line gear and paraphernalia associated with the hobby. zero impulse control about it either, like once he decided he was going to be a woodworker or a mountain biker or a climber or a kayak guy, he got all the most expensive, premium tier shit immediately on credit card. of course, he never used any of this shit, so it just sat in a garage or some storage space. vehicle breaks down, fuck it, just buy a new one fully loaded for whatever terms the vampire at the dealership offers first. kid could go to a great public school, but fuck that, gotta go to the most exclusive private school. kid could get free tuition at his school to study anything, but needs to go to like some elite school in a world class city with a rented apartment in the hip part of the city. guy was always leveraged out the ass and actively finding/choosing the most expensive option in every scenario.
and like, you're saying, "he could sell all that shit" and get out of his 22% APR credit card debt and like just be normal for 6 months to become immediately loaded and fully secure, but he was as proud as he was dumb and can't nobody tell such a smart person nothing about some basic shit like money. some people just decide they are owed all the finest things and will completely hamstring themselves for the next 24+ months to have it all right now.
for these people, it's like a polluted river. rivers are generally self-cleaning. stop dumping PCBs in there, and the river will eventually have birds and fish in it again. if these people stopped being a complete crazy asshole at full throttle for a year, they could be set for life and be a medium asshole because now like 20% of their income stream isn't being eaten up by debt financing. so it's like they would get a raise.
i don't know how people do like this. if i ever had some crazy money job, my first move is to bank as much as i can and/or have a paid off, low maintenance house because eventually the music is gonna stop.
As a guy into gear-heavy hobbies in an area full of people with more money than sense, morons like this are a godsend.
eventually the music is gonna stop.
YUP! I have a cousin that was like this and eventually his skills fell out of relevance and he didnβt plan for it. Hubris and a layoff ended his lifestyle pretty quick.
What was the skill?
Heβs in tech, but more on the managerial side. He was the guy that would design the corpIT structure and run their day-to-day. Not a position to scoff at until his salary became too high and the tools all became SaaS.
Keeping up with the Joneses is a compulsion to some folks.
This is how I would interact with hobbies if I was rich I fear
kind of a key move is to just save some bucks before you buy and generally set a monthly cap--based on how much cash actually enters your hands each month which isn't already allocated--for how much you can blow each month on stuff.
probably the majority of costs associated with the financial sector is to induce people not to do this, marketing limited time offers, "0%" financing, no money down, credit card rewards/convenience, etc.
having the cash for the purchase in an account before you buy is like the unspoken, depression-era eccentric grandparent mindset.
its crazy how much one can punch above their weight by doing this, because the buy now-pay later regime of corporate marketing dominates.
there's tons of shit now with small/independents and even franchisees where i inquire about discounts for paying for big items with cash or check and it's like "oh yeah, we can do that!" 3-5% off like a $1000 expense is some real ass shit.
big stores, i think, just can't offer such discounts between credit cards/debit, so acquirer fees are bundled in in all prices, and then part of them are funneled to rewards programs.
Thatβs how I was as soon as I got a job that paid above $10/hr lol. Just with less ability to crawl out - but I got that dumb luck. Meaning my partner said βwtf, have you literally never budgeted?β I then I did a cute little giggle and a spin and ran off
countless articles in newspaper try to provide a budget breakdown that explains how people earning at this level can still have tight finances.
in every one of them, they budget literally every conceivable expense, including insurance, leisure, savings, private schools, investments, new phones, new clothes, cars, vacations, charity, and then proudly present how there is barely any money left for discretionary spending, even though half of their budget is discretionary.
Lifestyle creep is a thing. These people get a good job that pays a high salary. Banks catch on and start pushing credit services. You can go from shit credit to high credit very quickly if you maintain a consistent high income for a couple of years. They get high credit limits. They start using credit cards over methods that are direct draws on their account. Everything seems easier to buy. You pay on your credit cards, say $100 over the minimum. You're staying on top of your credit and the interest doesn't seem that bad. Banks up your limit even more because you're a good borrower. Everything becomes even easier to buy. Next thing you know you're using 70% of your credit, your debt service costs have caught up with your income and now you're slowly draining any savings you have. You're addicted to the treats and you can't afford to pay off a large enough chuck to catch up.
Banks will then lower your credit limits to meet your current usage which fucks you even more. Your income is going right to debt service payments and now you have no more room to borrow. Default is just around the corner. By now you've spent years eating steaks and scrimps, having every streaming service, and a dozen mail order treat boxes. The thought of cutting back is distressing and you feel like you're struggling.
If you get a $300k income buy a $100k shack, sleep on a rock, drive a 30 year old honda, and use the rest to gamble on stonks. Do not be tempted by ipads, coffee subscriptions, and $200k EVs. You will resent their absence.
You pay on your credit cards, say $100 over the minimum.
Wild to me that people can make six figures and still do this. The very first thing I was taught about using a credit card was "pay the whole thing every month, because the interest rates can ruin you." I've never, ever broken this rule.
for stonks gambling: if you see more than a 10% return on investment, that's not a business, that's a scam and the mark may soon be you.
Diversified investment (eg: vanguard, betterment) can break 10%. Do not buy individual stocks.
That's a helluva lot avocado toasts
Don't they trot one of these articles out every 6 months or so now. "Finance/tech ghoul couple who makes 300k also say they're struggling" and it's that they might not be able to afford one of the several multi-week vacations abroad they take every year.
I think it's a "See, we're just like you disgusting poors, put down your torches and pitchforks, we also know what it is like to struggle! I had to delay getting a new Mercedes for a whole 3 weeks this year, because of how bad the economy is doing, I know your pain!"
but its credit card debt 
what limits they have they could be "struggling"
Besides general mismanagement of funds, thereβs two things I can think of that would cause this: student loans (as high income jobs correlate to high education levels) and large mortgage/rent payments (as high income jobs correlate with being in high housing cost areas).
How would student loans or a high mortgage make you go into credit card debt? Especially with such high income.
Mind you, having a $300k income now doesnβt mean that person always had a high income. They couldβve been making minimal payments on their student loans for years and the interest was accumulating. On mortgages, interest rates are up, private equity snatching up real estate has driven up prices, and if the homeowner puts little down then the monthly payments will be big. Both of those can add up to, putting a lot into loan repayments and then using the credit cards to cover the gap and then juggle those balances.
Mind you, that still puts them in a much better position than lower income earners as once they get those costs under control and paid off, they still have a high income job and a ton of equity in the house to fall back on.
They just eat into the monthly budget. So discretionary spending limits are impacted
I know some doctors that had ludicrously high amounts of basically all the kinds of debts before they managed to land a high-paying job, the real percent is probably lower but it definitely isn't around 0.
A while back on Tumblr I saw a breakdown of credit cards and how at different income levels it becomes a different thing. If you're just making ends meet, it's a trap. Something you should only use sparingly, to make emergency payments.
But at higher incomes, it becomes a tool. It makes more sense to keep your money in some place where it generates passive income, and use the credit card for day to day payments. As long as you pay it off on time, you wind up making more money than you pay to the loan holder in interest and fees.
Either that 60% doesn't know what they're doing, or the survey is misclassifying "struggle".
I think it is self reported as well, so someone who is worried they are "spending too much" might put it down as a "struggle" when the issue they will face is their bill being a bit higher than expected, so they'll have to take money out of their stocks to pay it.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't see how anyone could consistently out-earn the interest on a credit card. That'd be like a 20% monthly return.
My understanding of this isn't the clearest either, but
a small percentage return on a large enough sum can still outpace a large percentage on a small sum, so long as you're not skipping payments on the loan.
That's true, but in the case of a credit card, wouldn't the amount you'd be investing by not spending cash upfront have to be equal to the amount on credit? I guess technically you get a number of days of investment income equal to the number of days until the next payment, but considering you could as easily lose money in such a short time it doesn't seem like a viable strategy.
Arguably the majority of their budget is discretionary spending if they're living in mcmansions, drive brand new tank-sized trucks, etc. completely garish petite bourgeoise nuveau-riche behavior.
will you PLEASE consult the chart?
SELF-REPORTED FINANCIAL DETAILS ARE ALWAYS, 100% OF THE TIME, FALSE
These people think necessities are a brand new 100,000 car every three years.
Two richie watchies and a monster truck they call a car, renting a fancy house in a bourgeois neighborhood and super luxury beanis(what you wanna know the cost? more than you can afford pal 
and you can't buy them from regular channels ) on avocado toast
anecdote time: some personal finance book had a study about a frugal tradeskill worker driving the same f150 had almost double the money at retirement than the keeping-up-with-the-joneses lawyer who kept buying a new BMW every few years
Imagine not having cheap bananas all year round, DengueGang stays winning
Seeing as the top 10% account for like 60% of consumer spending, this checks out
I don't understand people who are so bad at money.
Yeah so where is the article about where all this money is actually going
Funny how they never do that one
I don't think eating vegetables out of season is a problem because i think greenhouse grown shit is adequate π
"Blah blah greenhouse tomatoes" okay if you think they're bland then idk have you tried cooking them or anything? Roast those fuckers. Season them good and get some caramelization and shut up about in season or out of season because you can still make it taste good and honestly canned sam marzanos are over rated anyway just cook better loser
BHG financial? Surely not like the magazine, right?