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submitted 8 months ago by HallowellNash@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 118 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Not just any Lee statue, the one from Charlottesville famous for the Unite the Right Nazi rally that culminated in Heather Heyer getting murdered.

I ended up in Charlottesville for a wedding a few years back and unintentionally parked right across the street from the statue. It was covered up with plastic; sent a shiver down my spine when I realized what it was. I’m glad they’re melting that shit down to turn a hate symbol into something beautiful. RIP Heather, you stood up for real American values.

[-] neutron@thelemmy.club 39 points 8 months ago

Charlottesville was the wake up call for many. Never I expected nazis openly marching on US soil, chanting slogans straight from WW2... nearly a century after WW2.

It also must suck for the locals to have their town's name being forever associated to those scums.

[-] Hangglide@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago

Are you even tangentially familiar with US history? US citizens have historically been right up there with Nazi level hate. Racism didn't just go away. It just became illegal to own slaves.

[-] ours@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Nazis admired a lot of things from the US: eugenics, the genocide of the Native Americans, anti-semitic oligarchs like Ford.

The way WWII went made the US pump out anti-nazi propaganda to support its fight against the horrible regime. Let's not forget that before, and after WWII the US Government supported many fascist groups as long as they were anti-communist. It was just convenient to foster anti-nazi sentiment during the war, especially with strange bedfellows like the USSR after they were betrayed by Hitler.

[-] neutron@thelemmy.club 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You think I don't?

I wasn't pretending racism just 'went away', but I had met so many bystanders (pretending racism wasn't that big of a problem because they didn't get to experience first hand) arguing it would eventually go away with the dinosaurs, until Charlottesville happened right in front of their eyes. That made even bystanders realize how serious it was.

"Tangentially familiar"? What is this? Reddit?

[-] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Yeah, generally, I prefer stuff like this to get preserved for historical value, just out of public view.

But many of these things are rallying points for hate right now, and the value of actually destroying that in the present outweighs the value to any historian or student of history in the future.

This one in particular. History won't miss it. Burn the fucker.

[-] TheMorningStar@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

The vast majority of these statutes, including this one, were erected decades after the Civil War and have no historical value beyond being physical representations of Jim Crow. The guy that commissioned it purchased land and oversaw the creation of a whites only park on the site where it was erected. They were rallying points of hate when they went up and they still are.

[-] Spur4383@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

It would be nice it it was just now, but those things were built as symbols of hate from the start.

[-] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

As much as I am all for inclusive art, I would have not melted that statue and instead put it in a museum as a memorial to who the south once thought of as a hero. Maybe add some context like how he shouldn't be celebrated, but still provide historical context as to his person and insight into how people back then thought of him.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 31 points 8 months ago

Don't worry, it's the south. They have about a thousand more statues of that traitor at least.

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[-] EssentialCoffee@midwest.social 25 points 8 months ago

Why? They're a dime a dozen and were put up in the 1900s largely due to the Daughters of the Confederacy and to reinforce Jim Crow laws.

They aren't really worth preserving. A picture can be taken to explain how awful these things are.

[-] Just_Pizza_Crust@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Museums don't store this sort of thing though. Since it's not from the civil war, it's not sensible to store and exhibit such a thing. Imagine if people started telling the Louvé to display paintings inspired by the Mona Lisa, because it's basically the Mona Lisa. Museum curators would have no reason to do so, despite what the public thinks.

Edit: Also the statue is a piece of propaganda rather than actual history. There's honestly not much to say about the statue itself. The bulk of what could be said is about Lee, and actual historic pieces of his life do exist in museums. Displacing those real historic exhibits in exchange for this statue would be a shame.

[-] homura1650@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Propoganda + Time = history.

The statue doesn't say much about the civil war. But it does say alot about the Jim Crow era in which it was built. Personally I think this is even more important because the Jim Crow era is far less well understood by most Americans, and far more relevant to the race issues we see today.

[-] TechyDad@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Exactly this. Plus, unfortunately, there are plenty of Confederate monuments and statues erected way after the Civil War whose sole purpose was "scare those black people into knowing their place." Some of those can find new homes in museums displaying the history of racism (with added context), but we can't preserve all of them. So melt the rest down and reuse them in ways that uplift people instead of oppressing them.

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[-] yata@sh.itjust.works 9 points 8 months ago

That would be one huge museum of equally bad similarly looking statues. No need to preserve them all, because there are so many of them, a couple will do.

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[-] Spur4383@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yeah, the caption should be segregation now, segregation forever. And if we are legally forced to stop scratching, we will make their place clear by building statues to the people that fought to keep them slaves when they get their rights from the federal government. The statues were about sending a message to those that believed segregation was done. The stairs being melted is the right move to send a message to those that built them.

[-] Rekhyt@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Unless the statue was erected by George Wallace, that caption is irrelevant. Put a caption of Lee's written words:

There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence.

This passage is commonly cut off after the full sentence before you get the full context in which Lee actually cares about how bad slavery is for white people and how slavery was good for the enslaved.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 32 points 8 months ago

But mah heritage! Them five years is the most important five years in history!

[-] Crikeste@lemm.ee 10 points 8 months ago

If they like the confederacy so much, they should go join them.

Oh wait, they’re all dead losers. Lmao

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[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 28 points 8 months ago

Wooo.

Aside from the insanity of glorifying a literal traitor who orchestrated the death of thousands of US Citizens (and that is a massive underestimate of Lee's impact) and it being a lightning rod for bgotry: Why the hell would people celebrate a loser? Like, not just in terms of having supported bigotry and hate but more as someone who got his ass beat.

And holy crap are people gonna be angry at the inclusive art.

[-] MindSkipperBro12@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

Because people think the bad guys in history and media are cool

[-] squiblet@kbin.social 13 points 8 months ago

There was this kid in my 4th grade class obsessed with Hitler and Nazis apparently because he thought they were like James Bond villains or Darth Vader.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Hollywood really didn't do a good job of portraying these people as the dysfunctional fuckheads they were.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

In the defense of Lucas, Vader was the hero of a tragedy meanwhile Palpatine is basically an amalgamation of three different politicians and if lucas was being completely honest Palpatine would be named Richard W. Hitler.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

It's more then just Star Wars. Hollywood seems to think that cold professionals are the only way to depict nazis and nazi allegories. I wish there were more depictions closer to "are we the baddies" where they hugely miscalculated something because if their arrogance. But it's harder to write a hero character when the villain trips over themself.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I hope they guard it because it will get vandalized by some racist prick.

[-] TechyDad@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Not only that, but Robert E Lee himself thought that there shouldn't be any statues to the Confederacy. After it failed, he was of the opinion that the country should move on - not glorify that time.

So not only were they building statues to a losing traitor, but they weren't even following that losing traitor's wishes on the one thing he was right about!

[-] mojo@lemm.ee 18 points 8 months ago

I'm glad they broadcasted that completely unnecessary detail just to rub it in lol

[-] yata@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It wasn't an unnecessary detail, it is integral to the story because it is deliberate positive symbolism. To counter that the original statue stood for deliberate hateful symbolism.

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

TIL swords into plowshares isn't just a MTG card.

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 9 points 8 months ago

LOL, those protesters can go stick a tiki torch somewhere

[-] Infynis@midwest.social 9 points 8 months ago

I was expecting a photo of him melting into a pool of lava like the Terminator, but I guess this is probably more efficient

[-] ours@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago
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[-] eran_morad@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

cast it into a giant dildo and imaple MAGAts on it.

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[-] money_loo@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Wonderful article, highly recommend y’all click through to read this one.

[-] amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz 3 points 8 months ago

Bronze reclaimed from an unskilled (compared to USG), traitorous general. 👍

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

Lee was technically a USG, and was probably one of the best generals in the war. He pretty much kicked the north's ass until the lack of industry in the south became an issue.

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Yeah, I’m from the south but I love to shit all over the confederacy, and fuck Lee for being a traitor and siding with racists, but he was an extremely competent tactician. He shouldn’t be exalted for it at all but to say otherwise isn’t telling an accurate history of the Civil War.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah, what he learned from the Mexican American war served him well. Shame it was used for traitors and resulted in drawing out the war.

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I majored in history but I’ll fully admit the civil war is not my area of expertise, so when I say I think I remember that he was torn on which side he wanted to serve please take that with a grain of salt. It doesn’t absolve what his choice ended up being, but I think it’s a bad idea to dismiss him as a historical figure to study and learn about and from(his mistakes especially). And again just to be clear, fuck Robert E Lee, but he was a relevant and complicated historical figure we shouldn’t dismiss him out our hand while not ever glorifying him.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago

I aint dissmissing him, im calling him an asshole. Two different things, theres much ya can learn from him and his actions. Foesnt stop it from being a shame he was a traitorous cunt.

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Oh yeah I was mostly commenting for others I didn’t think you were defaming the piece of shit. He sucks and backed the wrong horse, if he wanted a legacy he should’ve put human kind before homeland

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[-] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Reforge it into a statue of Katherine Johnson.

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this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
535 points (96.7% liked)

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