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[-] lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network 4 points 3 days ago

Hard disagree. This implies that parking abuse is worse if you have a new car than if you have an old one, and that's just not true.

Now, if they were a percentage of income, so that it hits everyone equally (inaptly named “day fine”), I would agree!
But expensive cars also don't imply higher income at all!

[-] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 166 points 5 days ago

Why not simply make fees proportional to income? For parking and other traffic infractions.

[-] Deconceptualist@lemm.ee 32 points 5 days ago

Because the real asshole money hoarders don't make a big income and store their funds as wealth and are living off interest.

Still, this would be a step in the right direction and as others said, some places do it.

[-] DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 5 days ago

This is why it has to be their time, not their money.

[-] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 days ago

Realized interest is supposed to count as income, but there are so many tax loopholes that it's crazy

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 36 points 5 days ago

Some places do. Wish more did though.

[-] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 5 days ago

This is the way. For a lot of things, not just parking fees.

[-] ch00f@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago

That would require the city to know your income.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 29 points 5 days ago

That would require the city to know your income.

Easy enough. The city asks you when you pay the fine. If you lie, your tax return the following year shows you lied and then you get a felony charge.

[-] virku@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago

The rich here in Norway have no income and no fortune if you look at their tax returns. But they own huge companies, have multiple houses and cars, etc. Not to mention the ones who have moved abroad who doesn't have tax returns at all..

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

The rich here in Norway have no income and no fortune if you look at their tax returns.

No income after deductions or no reported income at all? And yes I understand the concept of getting loans against assets that doesn't show up at taxable income. Do they not report income to their country of residence if it isn't Norway?

[-] virku@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

I haven't looked into it directly, but when the media looks into it every time the tax lists are released (yes, anybody can look into anybodys tax returns) then many are shown with zero in both columns.

Others move to different countries to get away from our taxes. I guess it is because they are'nt rigged in such a way that they can hide their assets or do deductibles like that. But I don't know how the countries they move to work taxwise other than that it pays off for them, or they wouldn't keep doing it.

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[-] ch00f@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

Not every state has income tax.

[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 3 points 5 days ago

Those people still pay federal taxes

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[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago
[-] ch00f@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

To the federal government. No income tax in WA.

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That would be unfair towards people like me who are into cars and just spend much more in proportion to my income compared to someone who just wants to go from A to B.

Only fair solution is to make it like north european countries do, based on your income.

[-] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 39 points 5 days ago

Proportional to income and wealth

[-] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 5 days ago

All fines should be proportional to income or wealth, otherwise they're only punishing the poor.

[-] daq@lemmy.sdf.org 35 points 5 days ago

I drive a wheelchair accessible minivan which is stupidly fucking expensive but not because it's a good or a luxury car. Modifications for the wheelchair access roughly doubled the total cost of the car.

I love the idea of penalties being proportional to income, but we all know cunts like musk will never pay a dime, while regular people will get fucked or ultra-fucked if they are poor.

[-] whome@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 5 days ago

Yeah so there should be way more reserved spots for cars like yours plus you probably wouldn't park on a side walk, cause you know how frustrating that is. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 44 points 5 days ago

Steve Jobs worked out a system with the local Mercedes dealer where he’d get a new car every three months.

Why every three months? Because that was how long you could drive without a license plate, and he liked to park in handicapped spots and they couldn’t ticket him without a plate.

[-] elgordino@fedia.io 23 points 5 days ago

I’ve never understood that about America. How can you leave the dealership without a license plate. In the UK if you don’t have a plate you’re not on the road.

[-] taiyang@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

I think now they give you those paper plates? Not ideal, but I see them a lot, flapping in the winds.

[-] cryptiod137@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

At least until a couple years ago, California you could drive without a plate for a couple months. I'm not sure how that really worked tbh, like what would happen if you were pulled over ECT.

Now you must get a temp paper plate right as you leave the lot.

[-] ProjectPatatoe@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

You get the paperwork folded up and taped to your windshield. Thats what you would present if you got pulled over to prove you owned the car.

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[-] Deebster@lemmy.ml 15 points 5 days ago

I hadn't heard that, so I looked it up. It's true, although it was every six months, not three, and California has closed that loophole now (dealers now issue and register temporary plates for new sales). I didn't see anything saying he'd parked in handicapped spots outside of the Apple car park.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Thanks for the fact check. In my defense I read this on a BBS in the 90s so the details are hazy

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 5 points 5 days ago

I didn't see anything saying he'd parked in handicapped spots outside of the Apple car park.

This makes it no less egregious.

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 9 points 5 days ago

The ultra rich don't matter in this equation. You could charge Elon Musk $10 or $10 million...it's practically the same to him.

They are anomalies. There are plenty of just-as-entitled, less-filthy-rich people.

[-] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 15 points 5 days ago

But the $10 million would sure help the community that ticketed him

[-] themurphy@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 days ago

This this this.

If we are afraid the ultra rich person doesn't care, guess we are in for another 10 mil next week.

Could finance alot of things in a society.

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm saying this to counter the Steve Jobs anecdote above me. He exploited a loophole to avoid some fines because of his exorbitant wealth. Obviously that's a bad thing and he should've paid, and exploiting the loophole to park in handicap spaces, even at Apple (where he could just reserve a spot for himself), is just a sign of his narcissistic psychosis. But to point it at him as an example of why it wouldn't work is missing the forest for the trees.

I feel the same way about UBI. Who gives a shit if Musk gets a check for $2000 every month or whatever. He doesn't, and that's a drop in the bucket of the whole thing, especially considering he (should/would) be paying way, way, way more in funding such a program. He's a distraction. I care way more about everybody else getting it.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 20 points 5 days ago

In one downtown area i lived in, a private tow company would tow illegally parked cars from allies, street side, etc... Unless the car was a real beater and the owner would be unlikely to pick it up. One of my friends bought a super beater 2 door work truck for 300 bucks, that was his downtown car. He would drive downtown and park it anywhere, and it never got towed.

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 26 points 5 days ago

They should increase exponentially over say a 5 year period. Anyone can not see a sign or accidentally overstay a meter now and then, starting with a "Hey jackass" amount of money that to most people would merely be an annoyance but escalate relatively quickly.

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[-] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 16 points 5 days ago

My car is worth negative money. I could become a professional parking ticket getter.

[-] 5715@feddit.org 7 points 5 days ago

Parking fines follow the costs-by-cause principle. Thus, qualifying them makes their size dependent on their damage.

Parking in a fire department safety zone resulting in a delayed fire response can be costly, but even if no fire response was delayed, there's an opportunity cost for the fire department, because they need to buy way-clearing devices or extended fire response tools, if there is high likelihood of blocked zones or passage.

There is a whole department of economic science dealing with this, the internalisation of external costs into economic activity (carbon tax is an example).

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 5 days ago

This is actually pretty smart

Probably wouldn't work in practice

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 days ago

Fines in general should use the day fine system.

[-] Zomg@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

Based on current value, or value at time of sale though?

If current value, who determines that value?

[-] slumberlust@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

Every state in the US already does this to prevent the ole 'sold this car for a $1' ruse to lower sales tax.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

A data analyst could easily compile average prices from the top 10 online car marketplaces, or whatever lawmakers want to set as the baseline. More likely they would just use blue book and maybe weigh it against the market area.

[-] JamesTBagg@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

But that's ignoring certain aspects. If some blue collar fella had spent his free time and money fixing his dad's old Camaro, a car dad bought for 4,000. Now it's still well maintained, numbers matching, original paint, etc. now it's worth 30,000, 40,000 maybe.
Then we have some other c-suite exec in a Tesla of similar market value.

Parking fines based on vehicle value is going to penalize one person much more than the other. Fines should be based on income or total net worth, not the value of a particular piece of property.

That was difficult to type with sticky BBQ fingers.

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this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024
309 points (93.0% liked)

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