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submitted 2 days ago by tarellzq@lemmy.world to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world

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[-] sxan@midwest.social 54 points 1 day ago

I have always tried to pronounce names correctly, and I have a decent ear. However, with some languages, I apparently can't hear some distinctions; there have been times when I was certain I was mimicking the sounds correctly, but the person repeatedly corrected me. It's not (necessarily) that I can't make the sounds, it's that I can't hear the difference between what's right and what I'm saying. Chinese is one of those; I can't get the romanized X and Z right.

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 21 points 1 day ago

Like a Japanese person trying to differentiate between l and r.

[-] grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 1 day ago

You don't even have to go outside of English for examples. See: the pen/pin distinction in English: some speakers have it, some can hear it when I speak, and some can't.

[-] LANIK2000@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

Aye, it's curious how one's upbringing affects their hearing. The Americans I interacted with can't tell the Czech P and B apart. Which I find fucking weird as mixing them up in Czech results in absolute gibberish. Probably similar to how TH and F sound the same to me.

[-] moody@lemmings.world 9 points 1 day ago

The X in romanized Chinese is particularly bad, because depending on what part of China, HK, or Taiwain (or other Chinese-speaking country) the person is from, they would pronounce it quite differently. Enough that if you learned from one, the others would try to correct your pronunciation, assuming that you learned it wrong.

[-] Zink@programming.dev 4 points 1 day ago

Not hearing the difference is absolutely a thing. I took a university class on the nature of language and I still have clear memories of some of the example videos we watched when we studied the phenomenon. It’s a very “how is this possible” kind of feeling.

Iirc it just depends on the language(s) you spoke while developing. You could probably hear the difference when you were very little.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

I’m gunna imagine this was you asking to get it perfect instead of close enough? ‘Cause then I can see them trying to help and the sound being a little tricky.

From my experience it seems like people, in general, would just rather a barely approximate attempt. The guy in the comic isn’t even trying to get it right and if they are then I’m sorry but they are profoundly stupid. It’s english words smashed together, we have the sounds and not even getting close is honestly pathetic.

[-] sxan@midwest.social 3 points 1 day ago

It's true that everyone is different. I've known people across the spectrum, who'd pick English names they liked the sound of ("Pearl") and would refuse to tell me their given name; people who had long ago adopted nicknames to make it easier for foreigners ("JC", "Raj"); folks who obviously didn't give a shit ("eh, course enough"); but also the occasional person who'd go back and fourth with me on the pronunciation until we mutually realized it wasn't going to happen.

[-] NeatoBuilds@mander.xyz 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Sometimes it do be like that, humans will human

[-] Zulu@lemmy.world 55 points 2 days ago

"I sing, i sang i sung. You win, you've won.

Sung won.

SANGJWINN?" -proZD

[-] odium@programming.dev 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

quote context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1RKkRCiU90

[-] Lightfire228@pawb.social 8 points 1 day ago

".... Do you have an English name?"

Also, Bridge 4

[-] odium@programming.dev 3 points 1 day ago

Bridge 4!

Also, I know you're quoting the video, but I do not and it has resulted in many similar situations.

[-] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 day ago

I always appreciate when people try, even if they suck. All you can ask of someone is that they try, it’s a good philosophy for life as well. Otherwise you’ll just be angry all the time.

[-] Windex007@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Yeah but that would make for an even shittier comic.

[-] OriginalUsername7@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

Funnily enough, Shawn is the anglicisation of the Irish name Seán, so spelled for the reasons outlined in the OP.

[-] proudblond@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

I’m a super white lady living in a pretty multicultural area. Sadly I feel like I mostly experience the opposite here from my non-white friends. Those with names from their ancestral culture (is that a good way to put it? Not sure) either ignore our mispronunciations or simply adopt western names. I had a coworker from Shanghai whose name I always said wrong because of the inflection. It makes me sad that they kind of give up trying to teach people to pronounce their names correctly, but at the same time, I get it. It’s a lot of constant work and some of us white people, or other non-whites from different cultures, just aren’t going to try or see why it’s important. I probably wouldn’t force the issue either if it were me, but man, what a constant way to feel othered.

[-] Tattorack@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Ah, see, here's the problem; I'm not Shawn either.

[-] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

after a lifetime of "fatty patty boom bah laddy" taken in good humor i'm not feeling the rage here

[-] Brahvim@lemmy.kde.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'd've pronounced it "Yu-shu-wann" first-try, probably.

*"Hi. Sorry if I get your name wrong, but... is it 'Yuxuan'?"

[+] Gladaed@feddit.org -40 points 2 days ago

Ok, but x sounding like sh is not ok. We need to normalize spelling stuff like it's pronounced. Otherwise every language is going to become like the English.

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 42 points 2 days ago

I have bad news for you. Spelling like it's pronounced is heavily subjective and opinion based. Virtually every single language in living use has deviating pronunciation to some degree.

[-] pooberbee@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 days ago

I disagree. X is a useless letter in English; it's always copying other letters or combinations of letters. Meanwhile, there's a special rule where putting an 's' and an 'h' together makes a different sound. Why not have a single letter for that?

[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It doesn't really sound like "sh" though, it's a different phoneme. You place the tip of your tongue in the centre of the gum ridge behind your bottom teeth, rather than the top one. They have that noise as well, and - unsurprisingly I suppose - it is written "sh". The former is a totally unfamiliar sound to a native English speaker, most people need that kind of specific coaching to produce it. Pinyin isn't perfect, I agree, but it primarily exists to be used by Chinese people who already know how their own language sounds.

[-] lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

Do people place the tip of their tongue on something when pronouncing "sh"?

[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Not quite, but that's where the channel for the air is formed, if you see what I mean. Placing the tongue is a cue for teaching the tongue position.

[-] Lumidaub@feddit.org 15 points 1 day ago

"Eichhörnchenschwanz" is spelt exactly like it's pronounced. Does this help you pronounce it?

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 4 points 1 day ago

Yes, but only because I'm familiar with German. And I'd still mess it up when trying to pronounce it.

[-] Lumidaub@feddit.org 4 points 1 day ago

familiar with German

Exactly. Different languages have different phonology that you have to be familiar with, there is no one way to "spell it like it's pronounced" (except IPA and even that can be tricky).

[-] Wilzax@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Bad take. You don't shame people for being unable to make sounds that aren't in their native language. If someone spoke Mandarin all their life and learned English, but had to approximate the "L" sound with "R", you wouldn't have this reaction claiming that allowing that approximation is turning everything into Mandarin

[-] odium@programming.dev 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Why is there a correct way? What's the correct way of pronouncing j? German, English, and Spanish have three different ways to pronounce it.

pinyin (system to write Chinese in Latin letters) is way more consistent than English spelling.

[-] pimento64@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 day ago

Skill issue, get good

[-] loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago

Well, in IPA, the "sh" sound is spelt "ʃ". But "x" isn't pronounced like in English either (and it's not like it's that consistent in English, it like "ks" in "experience" but like "gz" in "exam"). Instead, "x" in IPA is like "j" in Spanish.

[-] Skua@kbin.earth 3 points 1 day ago

And of course the biggest source of the IPA /x/ sound in English is Scottish and Irish words that will spell it "ch"

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 day ago

If you want everything in Chinese to spelled right, then learn Kanji.

this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2024

387 points (96.2% liked)

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