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submitted 1 week ago by KiaKaha@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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We’re all a little disappointed he didn’t turn out to be our Exact Type of Communist. You’re a little put out about his referencing Kaczynski and his Twitter retweets. Here’s why, despite that, I’m vehemently pro-Luigi and you should be too.

His arc is a normal dude in America. He’s a mid 20s Silicon Valley guy. He engages with mainstream ideas in his cohort, but is otherwise not particularly political. To the extent that he has an ideology, like for society at large, it’s the ideology of the dominant class.

He suffers under his material conditions, but like everyone feels powerless. Despite his position of relative privilege, he has an invisible disability, a really gnarly injury to his spine. He, like everyone else, and more than most, feels the injustice of the US healthcare system in his bones.

Kaczynski is the tinderbox that sparks the explosion, not because of Kaczynski’s ideology, but because of a simple proposition: political violence is possible.

From there, the man needs no political education. He doesn’t need Marx or Lenin. His education is literally welded into his spine. He knows What Is To Be Done, and he does it without Delay.

His (class) character should be judged not for muddled beliefs he had before he became a political actor, but rather for the political action he took. Not who he retweeted: who he killed.

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[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 71 points 1 week ago

I think that there's a direct parallel that can be drawn between Luigi Mangione and Willem Van Spronsen and, in part, it is that both failed to grasp the urgent necessity of building a movement and the ultimate inadequacy of adventurism and propaganda of the deed.

Both are heroes in my mind and both showed a degree of courage that is rare and should be inspiring however there's a reason why basically everyone knows the name of Vladimir Lenin while Aleksandr Ulyanov is a footnote in history, why Willem Van Spronsen himself has become barely a footnote in history and why we can expect Luigi Mangione to join their ranks in a very short period of time. After all, the American memory is short and it is only getting shorter.

He knew What Is To Be Done

It's not possible for me to disagree with this position any more than I already do. This is not what Lenin wrote about, this is not what Lenin nor the Bolshevik party did. This is not what needs to be done Brian Thompson has already been replaced. A thousand Brian Thompsons could be killed and the merest of dents would be made in the system at best. I respect the actions of Luigi Mangione but he will never achieve the change he sought because of a fundamental failure inherent to his muddled political beliefs.

We need more than that, the world needs more than that.

[-] combat_doomerism@hexbear.net 28 points 1 week ago

agree with almost the whole post except this:

thousand Brian Thompsons could be killed and the merest of dents would be made in the system at bes

if this many ceos were being assassinated (whether by random people or by socialist groups) i would think it would mean we are on the brink of revolution lol, that is a staggering amount of assassinations

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 19 points 1 week ago

Yeah, that's a good point.

I'd say that it would have to be more of an indicator than a measurement; it's not like there's some magic number of CEOs being assassinated that we would need to reach and then, spontaneously, the masses would reach a point where they are ready for revolution but if that number of CEOs were getting merced then for every assassin you could assume that there's at least 10,000 people who are deeply sympathetic. With those sort of numbers you're easily looking at millions of sympathisers and at that point a single spark really can start a prairie fire, in this case.

[-] ChestRockwell@hexbear.net 26 points 1 week ago

GOOOOD post.

gold-communist

Barring shenanigans we'll eventually get this guy's motives. Obviously no matter the motive he speaks to a deep rot and also fervor in the American consciousness. However let's not get ahead of ourselves. The courage and heroism he displays is merely that of the man willing to kill. Its nobility depends on motives, and I think the potential his motive might not be so noble is still live (though it would be good if he was concerned about systemic injustice we don't have facts yet). If he did this because he thinks healthcare should be using more AI, is he still a hero? If he thought medbeds exist (I know he's probably not that kind of crank, but still).

However as a figure he speaks to the real rot and horrors of the system. We should keep our assessment on that level, especially since it's not like he's a representative of revolutionary praxis

You're exactly right about adventurism and its limits. What is to be done is not the murder of random figures, it is to dismantle the system. We have seen again that adventurism cannot do that any more than any other event or outrage. The only way to change the world is through organizing and creating a real mass movement.

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The important point being that even if his internet history was nothing but Parenti quotes, this would still be true.

This is not what needs to be done Brian Thompson has already been replaced.

My favorite side note in this story has been that the day of the murder, blood still staining the sidewalk, the investors meeting that Thompson was in town for still went on. There was no delay out of respect, just business as usual. In the machine of capitalism, even those at the top of the hierarchy are still just cogs.

[-] AnneVolin@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Willem Van Spronsen was a committed anarchist. Luigi reads Curtis Yarvin. Stop rehabilitating fascists.

The most we know about his manifesto is that it quotes Kazinsky. He's a third positionist at best.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 58 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm pro Luigi because dude suffered 2 family deaths and experienced the health insurance company then shot the fucking CEO who absolutely deserved it.

That's it. That's all you need to be pro Luigi. Anything and everything else is either irrelevant or icing on the cake.

The only thing you need to be able to do as a communist is explain to people how any given CEO is responsible for 2 or more deaths. Which is something I think I could achieve with 95% of CEOs and that's being generous.

[-] ThermonuclearEgg@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago

smuglord : "All world leaders are responsible for 2 or more deaths, so they all deserve to be killed"

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 13 points 1 week ago

I-was-saying

[-] Chapo_is_Red@hexbear.net 41 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Luigi deserves our critical support without question. If I was on the jury, I'd never convict him. It doesn't matter if he had cringe takes on social media or our critiques of adventurism etc.

He took the fight to the enemy. His trial will continually raise the question of the injustice of US society under the dictatorship of Capital. It is our duty to take advantage of that.

They'll try to character assassinate him. They'll claim because he came from a relatively well-off background that therefore he is a phony (while they'd claim he was biased if he was poor). They'll try to claim he was deranged or deluded. We need to continually ignore that and drive home to the point that--regardless of any shortcomings--he acted in self-defense against an inhuman monster, against an avatar of Capital.

[-] ChestRockwell@hexbear.net 23 points 1 week ago

Taking advantage of the circumstances is right. The most critical support, and indeed, the circumstances and events are far more important than the man. If he is truly cringe we can let him be while pushing on the real issues and system that he found himself (at least potentially) ground up by

[-] Cruxifux@feddit.nl 35 points 1 week ago

He doesn’t need to be a fucking communist. It’s better if he’s a liberal or a conservative. If they’re willing to take on the bourgeoisie with us then we might actually have a fucking chance.

Besides, it’s not like any of them actually know what communism is. You can tell them taking power back for the working class through violence is anarcho capitalism or libertarian or some shit. As long as it fosters meaningful k solidarity with the working class against the elites I don’t give a good hot shit.

[-] wtypstanaccount04@hexbear.net 30 points 1 week ago

He is the good kind of class traitor. Material conditions shape people, and his sudden change in material conditions convinced him to do what he did.

[-] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Kaczynski is the tinderbox that sparks the explosion, not because of Kaczynski’s ideology, but because of a simple proposition: political violence is possible.

Yeh, but the problem is Teds don’t lead to Lenins, they lead to Timothys.

Discussion of praxis aside, if relatively normie techbro types have reached the stage where they’re clipping CEOs in the streets, it does suggest “everything under heaven is in chaos, the station is excellent”

[-] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

He is a symptom of late stage capitalist decay in amerikkka. He’s not a white blood cell, he isn’t the cancer killing the body. He’s just a spasm in the twitching corpse.

[-] abc@hexbear.net 23 points 1 week ago

PLUS he's hot

[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 week ago

Bro 86d a CEO, that's critical support at the very least

[-] crosswind@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago

If he had been killed by the cops like we expected, I'd be in favor of putting up statues of our flawed, confused, and confusing hero. But since he's alive, I won't be surprised if his reaction to fame is to get really deranged, and start trying to leverage his public support into something shitty. He did something great, and his reasons or other actions won't change that, but I'm hesitant to sing his praises at the moment. Hopefully he's happy with letting his actions speak for themselves.