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[-] NeryK@sh.itjust.works 209 points 4 months ago

Like every PvE game which does not have hundreds of people working to churn out content, its playerbase will dwindle until only those who do not get bored by its gameplay stick around. Whether it's Left 4 Dead, Payday, Deep Rock Galactic or Vermintide, those types of games follow this pattern...

And I for one, see no fucking issue with that. It's a great game, people play it until they have had their fill and then move on. Helldivers 2 is only an outlier because of how hard it hit at launch. It absolutely does not have the content pipeline to keep a large playerbase engaged, so yeah it will not keep printing a lot of money, just a little bit every now and then.

Now excuse me as I go and spread some managed democracy.

[-] loganb@lemmy.world 29 points 4 months ago

This message was approved by your local democracy officer.

[-] Irremarkable@fedia.io 22 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Basically this. Anyone who is surprised by this has been paying literally zero attention to how these things usually go. The majority of the time when a game explodes that much, this happens. Sometimes to a lesser extent, sometimes to a greater one. A good chunk of the people who buy the game in the first place buy it to play with their friends, and when their friends move on to another game, they will too.

While you will have games that are the exception, such as PUBG which has had massive a player count for forever. they are indeed the exception.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 4 months ago

Yeah, most players will play a game for a bit and then move on. It's rare to get attached to a game and play it forever, and if you do, you likely only have one game like that. There'll be people who play Helldivers 2 for years, but it doesn't seem set up like an MMO so is unlikely to get the same long term traction.

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[-] snooggums@midwest.social 70 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The player base was always going to decline significantly.

It doesn't have the same kind of slow grind and wide open maps with tonnes of things to interact with that kept up the populations of a game like WoW or Overwatch, so it was going to naturally decline anyway as most people got their fill of the game play and move on to the next game. Anything that is comparable either had a ton of content that was drip fed or has random loot boxes to keep people playing. This game lets you earn enough to play even the highest levels of play fairly quickly, with getting everything taking a bit longer.

The remaining population is actually pretty high for this kind of game, and it is far from dying. I play randoms when friends aren't on even though I have unlocked all the upgrades to earn myself medals, but also to help out the other players because the game does promote team play even with all the accidental team kills. I never have to wait when there are more than 1,000 players on a planet, and the there are often several planets with several thousand even when people aren't grouped up for major orders.

The community is engaged and while there will certainly be more of a decline as time passes, I wouldn't be surprised if the game gets a significant bump in player activity (old players coming back) when they introduce the next faction. Probably not double whatever population is there when it hits, but maybe 50% increase as people come to check out the new content. I think the rapid release was their original plan to keep the player base going and I'm happy they slowed down to address bugs and do quality of life improvements for a bit.

This game also has the most friendly, or at least least antagonistic, player base I have ever experienced in an online game. Although most random games don't have anyone speak up unless I do first, people help each other out, attempt to get everyone out, and there is often hugs on the ship after extraction. I have only had one player grief in dozens of random games and one match had someone who was rude. Far, far fewer negative experiences than any other game I've played.

It may get down to 3% of the highest number of players and will still be alive and kicking for those that do enjoy the game play.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 42 points 4 months ago

Deep Rock Galactic would like a word about friendly player base!

[-] Failx@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 months ago

Did I hear a "Rock and Stone"?

[-] thanks_shakey_snake@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago

Rockity rock and stone!

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[-] FoxFairline@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 4 months ago

Guild Wars 2 as well. :)

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 5 points 4 months ago

I haven't experienced it, but hear good things about the community.

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[-] jet@hackertalks.com 68 points 4 months ago

I really enjoy the game, but now me and my friends are maxed out. Max samples, max medals, max upgrades. With nothing to progress to there is far less incentive to play.

The way my friend group works, and I imagine many others work, when I see one of my friends online playing a game, I join their game. And hell divers was great for that, they made joining games effortless. So it was very social.

But without any of my friends actually progressing towards something in the game, it's far rarer for us to just join on each other cuz we're not playing it alone. So now Helldivers is a an option, when we're already together online, trying to figure out something to do, we will hell dive and have fun no problem. But it's far less likely now

If they want to maintain a larger user base, they need to have something for people to constantly progress towards. It could just be donating samples to a new research project, that could be infinite grind

[-] Maalus@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

And yet they need to also be fixing bugs en masse since they create tons of them every update.

[-] Xanis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

They should create a third enemy that they ask the community to keep mostly hidden, only accessible to the best (progressed above a certain point) Helldiver. This is a bad, if fun, idea though.

So I guess what would everyone like to see?

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[-] ocassionallyaduck@lemmy.world 55 points 4 months ago

When the initial player base numbers are fucking unsustainable, this is a necessary and expected correction.

Panicked headline aside, there are still tens of thousands of players online at any given time and the game is doing extremely well at for not having had a proper expansion or new faction, and just the steady drip feed of new gear and equipment.

[-] Fades@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It’s clickbait more so than panicked headline but yeah I agree

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 53 points 4 months ago

So?

I hate how every game want to compete for current playtime.

I got way more than money's worth out of this game, but I haven't played in over a month. I hope that when I go back to it, there's still a playerbase.

But like, the developers planned for at best to get 10% of what they did....

If they dropped that extra 90%, I don't see why that should spell the end of the game. It's the playerbase the game was designed for.

There's just this weird "first or worst" mentality with a lot of studios. I hope this game is just given the room to stretch it legs over a decade or so. Something people might not always keep installed on their console, but still download once or twice a year to get some games in.

Games like that can be a success. Just because a lot of people burnt out doesn't mean they'll never play again.

It's just games like that don't maximize investor returns. They want to churn out hits that people play exclusively for 3 months then drop, only to buy the new one next year.

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[-] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 50 points 4 months ago

Why would it sustain those numbers? It's fine to play a cool game, be satisfied with it, and then move on.

[-] xenoclast@lemmy.world 34 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I gotta say. Props to Lemmy users here. This thread is just post after post of generally reasonable take on how enjoyment and entertainment work in reality.

And really just a perfect argument for why infinite growth live service games are a fucking cancer dreamed up by humans who are fucking parasites.

Helldivers is great and the devs should be proud of their success. A+ .

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

Because in the minds of suits live service games are meant to be played forever.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Because it's a live service game. The disconnect is that this doesn't make players want to stay as much as the developer/publisher would like.

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[-] Chozo@fedia.io 50 points 4 months ago

Naturally there is always going to be a certain amount of player decline over time, but I have to wonder how much of this could have been saved had Sony not created a PR nightmare for the game with the required PSN account linking.

That said, I'm sure there's going to be a sharp spike in players very soon, as Arrowhead should be releasing a new enemy faction into the game very shortly, which is going to bring a lot of players back again for a while. Hopefully they'll find a way to keep those players interested again.

[-] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

All games like this have massive daily player drop offs a few months after release.

To be honest despite the publicity, most players don't actually give a shit. Most players don't read gaming news. And many players don't care, either because they already have a PSN account, or they just don't care about making another account to play the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if over half the players had never even heard of the PSN controversy at all. The SteamDB player chart actually indicates when those shenanigans were compared to player numbers, and the daily player numbers had already been declining at that same pace for a month up to that point and continued at about the same rate after.

https://steamdb.info/app/553850/charts/#6m

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[-] MeaanBeaan@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago

And the Sony account requirement will be reimplemented in 3... 2... 1...

[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 20 points 4 months ago

More accurate to say that the initial success surge has calmed down to their core audience.

That 10% or fewer depending on if it's still shrinking will be the rock and stoners that keep this game running well into the future.

You'll probably see a similar spike then fall off then consolidation when The Forever Winter releases. That core community revenue is probably going to be what FunDog is planning on using for future projects and to cover the maintenance costs of TFW. I mean either that or they'll power the servers by kidnapping the playerbase and harvesting their organs and bioelectricity but it was really their own fault for not being able to get out of sight before nightfall.

[-] Switorik@lemmy.zip 19 points 4 months ago

I'll put my two cents in. I never bought the game because of the invasive anti cheat. I was still tempted until they required PlayStation account linking.

I didn't get it initially because it looked very repetitive and cheesy (in a bad way). Some of my friends played it which made me look into it and by the time I may have gave in and tried it they introduced account linking and I full noped out of it.

[-] MelastSB@sh.itjust.works 12 points 4 months ago

Sony didn't go through with account linking in the end. However you cannot purchase the game in the (numerous) countries where PSN isn't allowed. If you had already bought it (and didn't refund), you can keep it.

Your other points still stand, though

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 9 points 4 months ago

Sony didn't go through with account linking in the end.

Yet

[-] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 4 months ago

Never touched it again after the psn fiasco. I am not deluded enough to think the devs were on the players side. If you saw there early messages about it and still think they are with you, you are completely lost.

[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago

That's like saying breaking bad has lost 99% of its viewers with no sign of recovery. L take

[-] MintyAnt@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

The point made in the article is that this isn't supposed to some content that is released and over, like a TV episode. It's a live service game that's expected to be continuously played and generate income. This a huge drop is a mark against that model.

I do love helldivers, but I'm not exactly sad if live service games end up being not attractive to devs anymore.

[-] pedestrian@links.hackliberty.org 15 points 4 months ago

And other major expansions for elden ring and FFXIV released recently. There's potential overlap in the player base. 90% is a big dip though.

[-] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

How to be successful long term:

  1. Make a good game

  2. Don't ship your game with a rootkit

  3. Don't ban entire regions from your game

[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

If they drop they root kit I'll play it

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[-] Voyajer@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

That is just the natural lifecycle of every multiplayer game

[-] vinceman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 4 months ago

As someone who loves Helldivers 2 but has not played in about a month and a half, it's summer Forbes. People are also playing less games than normal.

[-] Fades@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It’s down 90% because of summer?? Come on now, that’s ridiculous. You think all the kids home for the summer refuse to play games?

Maybe you should take a look at the steam numbers for the other big games, they are absolutely not down 90%

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 months ago

Oh no, anyway.

[-] snekerpimp@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It has gotten more fun grinding at extreme for samples, and helping out lower level players, since the buffing patch. The endgame is just kind of flat.

(edit): The article doesn’t go into how and why there was a decline, how Sony and Arrowhead kinda shot themselves in the foot with account linking. I think this would still be a fast moving train had they not tried to do that, and had the man power to focus on bugs, balance and battles at the same time.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 4 months ago

how Sony and Arrowhead kinda shot themselves in the foot with account linking.

The graph from the article literally proves the opposite.

Account linking happened May 6th. It is on the graph as point "A."

There is a small increase in the decline of the player count, but you had already lost almost 200,000 players since the last peak on April 1st!

So between April 1st and May 6th the game went from around 370,000 players to around 170,000 players, and the current player count literally can't drop the same level because that would be less than zero.

So, the bigger drop came way before account linking, friend. The game was already dying, and the account linking just firmly put it out of its misery.

[-] krashmo@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

You make mostly good points but its stupid to call the game dead or dying. They don't currently have a bunch of players they never expected to have in the first place. They still sold their product to those people which makes it a huge net win for them. It's a wildly successful game by any reasonable metric you can choose to evaluate it against.

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[-] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Without any real sense of progression, I just couldn't find a reason to play unless I had a friend who was already online and playing. Unlocking new weapons and whatnot is fun until its not, and when I don't have the minutia that comes with an MMO or the randomness that comes with a rogue-like, I don't have anything to look forward to from the next run. There was no surprise to the game, and the initial luster faded pretty quickly when I realised what the treadmill was going to be. If there had been a more single player focused bit to it, I may have lasted longer, but being so heavily reliant on a party meant it was a group of friends, or some randos that are going to waste my time.

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[-] Zeke@fedia.io 7 points 4 months ago

To be honest, the nerfs killed it and the buffs didn't go to the things we enjoyed playing with like the quasar. It went to a lot of other things, but we came back and it still felt awful

[-] OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 5 points 4 months ago

I've been waiting for a sale to buy it... hopefully there are still players but if not shrug

[-] el_abuelo@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 months ago

There's still players, don't worry.

Everyone seems to want to jump on the neg train but reality is that even games with tiny players numbers can still support multilayer matchmaking

It's still the 35th most played game on steam.

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[-] lorty@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago

Wait, was this heralded as some live service forever game?

[-] caboose2006@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 months ago

There Will be a bump when the release the new faction and the mystery 4th faction. But as someone with everything maxed out I just drop in twice or thrice a week now. Just nothing to aim for. Some kind of prestige system could be good.

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this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2024
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