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West Bank videos show Israeli troops killing teenager and driving over man’s body
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2024
344 points (94.3% liked)
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I always see people blaming the American president but not Netinyahu or the Israeli government. It's actually weird. As if he could stop the war unilaterally or like the US aid given to Israel is the only thing allowing it to happen.
I do not support Israel on this but I do find it weird how easy it has been for people to claim it as Biden's fault alone.
I hear what you're saying, Bibi and his cabinet of whack jobs are currently the main perpetrators. However, if for arguments sake, Biden sat down with Bibi on October 8th and outlined very clear red lines for it's military aid, ensuring any action that was to be undertaken by Israel would be discriminate and proportionate, we'd be in a VERY different position right now.
Biden and the US military aid to Israel is not the only thing enabling the genocide in Gaza, but the genocide in Gaza would not have been able to happen without it.
No Democratic voter is going to concede this, even though you're right.
They will argue that poor Sleepy Joe is an innocent bystander in all this and completely powerless to stop it, even though he could very well stop Israel from getting five billion in charity annually from us that directly helps them annihilate civilians in Gaza.
I will. They're absolutely right.
I mean yeah he’s definitely right.
“Sleepy joe” give me a break with these toddler level insults.
Excuse me, friend, that's an insult to the intelligence of toddlers. Toddlers can think for themselves and create their own insults.
It's not his fault alone, but he's a very strong supporter of Israel and is a major reason the situation became as bad as it is now. The POTUS can basically veto any Israeli policy or action involving Palestine, because even if we set aside the aid Israel just can't afford to lose the veto protection at the UN.
Every single US president has been a vocal ally of Israel. Joe Biden is literally doing nothing different than any of his predecessors including Trump.
And now they're committing genocide. The situation has changed.
And now they’re committing genocide more quickly than before. FTFY.
It's become undeniable that this is genocide. We should cease support.
Yes 0.004% of the population of all Palestinians are dead.
You understand genocide means wiping out a population, right?
Is it the most incompetent genocide ever?
Please explain: surely Israel has the weaponry and capability right now to destroy every structure in Gaza City in about twenty minutes, why aren't they?
If it's genocide, why are the daily death tolls trending downward? They should be going up, if it's genocide, they still have 99.996% of the way to go.
You're really going to say it's not a genocide because it's not done yet?
Disgusting.
He's going so far as to bypass Congress to give them more weapons. Reagan handled the 1982 war better, fucking Reagan.
Reagan made Israel stop bombing Lebanon. He just said "but you're doing a holocaust" and they stopped.
Pro-genocide centrists really hate hearing that Biden is to the right of Ronald Reagan on the issue of genocide.
I mean, they love that he is to the right of Reagan on this. They just don't like hearing it.
It's so fucking pathetic how Biden wants Bibi to respect him and Bibi's whole electoral strategy is "fuck the democrats". It's the most cuck shit.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bibi is cranking up the overtness of the genocide because he knows it'll hurt Biden but Biden is mentally incapable of telling Bibi to stop.
Biden has given Israel "no red lines" and has backed them without question. The US has all the cards when it comes to controlling Israel and refuses to play any of them. Just threaten to cut aid and they'll stop. Threaten to not back them in the UN. Threaten to recognize the genocide. Threaten to recognize them as an apartheid state. Threaten to recognize their nukes. Threaten to recognize reality and they'll fold.
When Israel was bombing Lebanon, Reagan just gave them a blank stare and said "but it looks like a holocaust" and they stopped. Because Israel is nothing without the US and despite all Bibi's bluster they know that.
Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have a casus belli. They are mortal enemies stuck together on the same piece of ground. Hamas literally has the goal of eradicating Israel, and they are supported in that goal by Iran and Hezbollah. Hamas aren't "freedom fighters" trying to achieve a reasonable and peaceful compromise toward a two-state solution.
October 7 was conducted deliberately by Hamas to prompt an over-response by Israel. Hamas is hiding among the population and in tunnels under people's homes knowing damn well that their presence is causing the death of tens of thousands of their countrymen.
Did the civilian population ask to used as human shields? I doubt it. Hamas decided to start a war without the consent of Gaza's population.
Polls show Hamas is the most popular faction in both the West Bank and Gaza and it has only gone up after 10/7 because they showed that they are the only people willing and capable to fight the genocidal apartheid state of Israel. Hamas hides in tunnels because it's been a proven strategy to survive air raids since Vietnam. The next time an IDF spokesperson claims that a Hamas base was under some civilian structure, consider the idea that Hamas merely had an exit point there. Consider how Hamas somehow trained airborne commandos and maybe that the IDF doesn't actually know shit about anything that goes on in Gaza.
The human shields line is total bullshit. Human shields don't work if the enemy is known to not care about the human. Israel has repeatedly claimed that Hamas uses "human shields" and then shot the shields anyways. Since 10/7 they have started shooting the "human shields" even if they are Israeli. The IDF just wants to kill civilians and is just giving you the run around.
Throughout all of this you still acknowledge that Israel is "over-responding". That "over-response" is outright genocide. All you're doing is trying to blame the victim of genocide for the genocide. Let's consider you're suggestion that Hamas deliberately provoked Israel into doing a genocide. Israel is still doing the genocide. You can question all you want if what Hamas did was necessary, AFTER YOU STOP ISRAEL FROM DOING THE GENOCIDE.
Matthew Waxman, an expert on the laws of war from Columbia Law School, said in an interview (link below) that Hamas clearly is using the population of Gaza as human shields, and that is a war crime. It is also a war crime to deliberately target civilians. But it is not a war crime to kill civilians who are co-located with military forces. That is the fault of the force who co-locates with civilians.
We can debate all day long about the long, complicated history and broader context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and there is a lot of fault on both sides, but in this post-Oct 7 phase of the conflict, Hamas is mostly to blame for the civilian casualties.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4zO63JRg6VQ7LVnKrwI8cm?si=BoIW2OPdQrCIY_uhZ6P0lA
Who literally served in the Bush Admin for the Iraq. Maybe this guy is just blowing smoke up your ass to kill more Muslims.
By co-located you mean, anywhere in Gaza. This is also taking what Israel is saying at face value that they always know where all the Hamas militants are and they're deliberately pin pointing them whenever they drop a dumb bomb on an civilian structure. And somehow Hamas is in literally every apartment block. 10/7 proved that the IDF doesn't know shit about what goes on in Gaza. The fact that after all this destruction, Hamas is no where near defeated. Best estimates is that it's capacity has been degraded by only 20%. Israel is lying to you. They want to purge all of the Palestinians from the strip into the Sinai.
Biden doesn't have to support Netanyahu's genocide.
Well for me personally, I get to tell Biden what to do because hes supposed to represent me. If I lived in Isreal I'd probably be yelling about Bibi and wouldn't say anything about Biden. I have no power, not even theoretical, over Bibi.
Criticizing Biden is fine. There's more nuance to what I'm saying than that. The phrase "genocide joe" illustrates it perfectly for me. A weird trump-style nickname that is supposed to pin the whole thing on him. He should act very differently, but that doesn't make it entirely a Biden thing.
Fwiw I try to not say that phrase myself anymore and instead if I bring it up ill say financier of genocide, because thats more direct, less charged and not nearly as debatable as the other one, So I'm not gonna argue against distaste for the nickname, but personally I'm neutral to it which could be why I end up on the 'other side' of some of these discussions. I guess I just feel like some people need to hear that, but I also recognize that not everyone is going to take it with enough nuance for it to be good.
Ignore this person. They claim they have no power over Netanyahu, but want Biden to change his stance on Israel. Why? Because it will influence Netanyahu!
They are either someone who doesn't understand their own motivations or a troll. Neither one is worth arguing with.
There's a concept called power mapping which can inform you on where you should put your attention if you want to effect change. For Americans without Israeli citizenship, they will get nowhere asking Bibi to stop, that time is wasted. If I had all the time in the world yeah I'd yell about everyone. But I don't, so to be effective I have to focus on what I can change, thats Biden.
It's the same with Ukraine stuff: Russia attacks Ukraine and somehow the US is doing a proxy war. It's just US exceptionalism, that people from the US are prone to, just turned on it's head.