this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
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Just wondering as a Mac user without much experience: how is Safari in terms of privacy compared to say Firefox?
If a lack of privacy is like being nude in public, Apple is an expensive bouncer at an expensive club where you take your clothes off for free in front of people who pay apple a cover charge, because Apple promised them you have the biggest tits.
It's kinda flattering, but is it really privacy?
I don't think u need to worry to much about ur browser when ur os is always sending info in the background.
What info? god knows, but its concerning how it increased after apple introduced his plan to do some shady Facebook like business just after u guessed, blocking Facebook for doing the same without giving him his part of the cake.
Flashback to the Windows 10 launch, when typing anything while the resource manager was open revealed a small spike in internet traffic.
No clue what actually happened in the background, but it was consistent over multiple friends computers. Very fun.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2019/07/30/confirmed-apple-caught-in-siri-privacy-scandal-let-contractors-listen-to-private-voice-recordings/?sh=3d0448257314
Apple is faux privacy.
Also, companies like Google are doing a ton of on device ML now. pretty much every single thing on my Pixel 7 Pro never leaves my device.
You really believe that, don't you?
Marketing angle, sure, but starting in 2019, Apple's core MacOS product moved to selling users data to serve them better ads. They were only private for as long as they could attract new users with that. Now all they really have is "less privacy disrespecting than Windows 11 or ChromeOS"
Do you mean like... App Store and Apple News ads? What targeted MacOS ads are you talking about?
Eh, other vendors have been known to cooperative with police and government officials and hand over user data without a warrant - any evidence that's been the case with Apple?
https://privacyinternational.org/guide-step/4335/macos-opt-out-targeted-ads
Look in the system preferences app. There's a whole section for opting out of Apple collecting advertising data about you. That's the preferences app of the ENTIRE OS.
Meanwhile, Apple's application APIs set advertisements as a core feature:
They may be letting you opt out for now, but this is an early phase of the enshittification cycle. First, they attracted users by promising privacy. Now they're attracting advertisers by dangling in front of them an expanded user base. It won't be long until Apple will make opting out more complicated and difficult because they think they can make more money selling more data to advertisers. They'll do it slowly. Every time saying "they're giving consumers more granular control over their privacy" when really they're just "creating opt-outs for things you didn't use to have to opt out of" or "creating opt-outs that used to be part of a larger opt out." Someday will come "we've eliminated opt-outs" and eventually "here's an advertising banner at the bottom of all default apps"
None of what you're saying has to do with handing over user's data to police and government officials without a warrant - every other smartphone OS vendor does it, except Apple, so I'll continue to use their devices because they protect my data, and their products are well-made and integrate with each other well.
Your slippery slope fallacy is funny, though. Sure, Apple is just as guilty as every of vendor of using it's users data to enrich it's services, but they still put UI/UX at the forefront compared to others - their design system is certainly better than Android's material design. Google apps aren't even designed with one-handed bottom screen mobile navigation. Apple's modal-based system where each section's last state is preserved and maintain's it's own back gesture timeline is far more intuitive than Android's system-wide back-gesture, which throws the user all over the place.
Well, at least it's apparently all in one place instead of being scattered into several different apps' settings like with Android. Android has its Privacy Dashboard, but, from what I've seen, it doesn't begin to sufficiently cover privacy.
Won't get caught if it's closed source...
You're using an apple product, you didn't have any privacy in the first place. Browser choice isn't going to change that either way.
Because Google is a bastion of privacy
Wrong, Apple doesn't just hand over their user's data without a warrant like other vendors.
Do you have proof of this? For example with the payment info on Apple Pay. It is all encrypted, not even the side I’m buying from sees my address or credit card info.
It's the same with Google Wallet, too, so that doesn't really demonstrate anything.
Then what does demonstrate it?
https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558
https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-privacy-dsid-analytics-personal-data-test-1849807619
Thanks, will look in to it tomorrow !
Edit: we should start a class action lawsuit, this is extremely illegal in the EU
IMO much better. It’s Apple product. You give your data to them anyway while using macOS or iOS so that’s one argument: no need to share your data with anyone else.
Apart of that they have built in tracking blockers and I think they fiddle with cookies because I get logged out from services more frequently than on other browsers that I use for web development.
Wait... Your argument is "it's good for privacy because you sent your telemetry already anyway?
I mean, it is a fair point that if you were worried about Safari's privacy, you should've been worried about MacOS first.
It'd be like being worried about privacy of IE on Windows. The OS is doing everything and more.