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submitted 11 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] Syrc@lemmy.world 144 points 11 months ago

I’ve always thought being “proud” of your race, any race, is a weird concept.

Like, you didn’t do anything to be white, or black, or asian. Why would you take pride in something you had no agency in?

[-] roofuskit@lemmy.world 37 points 11 months ago

It's a participation prize. Congratulations, you were born.

[-] CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

I "proud" of my poor eye sight, and and "proud" of my genetic high cholesterol 🎊🔥💯

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[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

With whites you definitely have a point, but it’s a little different when whites have at various times in history attempted to erase your culture in numerous ways, including outlawing your language, clothing, music, dance, martial arts, traditional healing systems, religious beliefs, hair styles, etc, while converting you to what they believe to be valid and acceptable.

[-] Syrc@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

That’s being proud of your culture though, not your race. Culture is something you willingly engage in, and you definitely have the right to be proud of it (and that includes Italian culture, Greek culture and all other types of white culture as well).

But race? Saying “I’m proud of being black” means nothing when American black people and African black people barely have anything in common that isn’t the color of their skin.

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 13 points 11 months ago

Culture is very much tied to race and where those people came from. It still happens now. It should be obvious without explanation. It’s not at all difficult to find stories about black students sent home from school because their hair is “not ok.”

[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Culture is very much tied to race

True that. Candice Ownens is the perfect example of a racist POC disowning their entire culture to not be associated with anyone but white Republicans. She's culturally white and it's a choice.

[-] Syrc@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

It’s tied but it’s different. A lot of third+ generation immigrants have the same customs as locals, and you wouldn’t tell them apart if not for physical traits, for example.

It’s also weird how stuff that used to be shamed about turned to reasons of pride. We (as in, non-racist people) realized shaming people for their hair is stupid, why would being proud of it not be just as stupid?

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It’s not weird at all. If one race has systematically tried to beat you down throughout history and convince you that your race and culture are inferior, there’s all the reason in the world to reclaim respect for all that your people almost lost, and tell that race to fuck off if they don’t like it, and be proud of it. Gay pride isn’t race based, but it’s definitely a similar thing from a different direction. It sounds like you need to spend significant time sitting and talking with people of cultures that have been through it.

[-] Syrc@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

It’s correct to demand equality and apologies for what happened in the past, but beyond it isn’t that just “pride” in being/having been discriminated?

I would love to talk more about this with people who are directly involved in it, but even then, races/sexualities are not a monolith and that person I spoke to might have a completely different opinion from the rest. Plus I feel like you need to be very intimate with someone to have that kind of talk, so it’s not easy at all. I also comment my opinions on the internet because it’s a simple way of finding people who disagree and might give you a different point of view.

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

isn’t that just “pride” in being/having been discriminated?

No. I can’t imagine there’s a single person who has ever felt legitimately proud about being discriminated against in a manner you suggest.

Proud of continuing the traditions of one’s ancestors so they aren’t permanently lost to historic racism or diluted in the modern melting pot, via artistic expression, etc, yes.

You still have plenty of time to talk to people and change your viewpoint.

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[-] MBM@lemmings.world 4 points 11 months ago

I always read black as "American black people", and there there definitely is a shared culture, of having ancestors that were slaves and not knowing where in Africa they came from because the slavers didn't care

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[-] dangblingus@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If you belong to a group that has been historically oppressed, being proud of your race/culture is a sign of rebellion.

[-] rhombus@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

It’s weird to have pride in race if you experience no adversity because of it. Since white people don’t face the same kind of challenges white pride just feels like “I’m proud of my privilege”, whereas with black pride it’s more “I’m proud of who I am despite the challenges I face because of it”. Same goes for other things like LGBT pride, it’s celebrating who they are even if it cause them a lot of hardship.

[-] anarchy79@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Couldn't it be sort of an affiliation with the full history of the White Man, for better or for worse? I don't take pride in my skin color, but it does represent a fascinating time in human history and early human migration. This is purely academic of course, no actual person who says they are "proud of being white" would ever say that or likely even be aware of the history and the science, but it could be.

The problem lies in the definition of "pride". You can be proud of who you are without comparing yourself to others. You can be proud of who you are without thinking less of others, or treat them as inferiors. In fact I'd say it's mandatory but not everyone gets that.

Not sure where I'm going with this, not arguing for or against per se, just exploring the concept because it's complex, interesting, and sadly ever so topical.

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this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2023
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