but you know it's almost all of them and practically all their institutions. It's fair for their victims to be wary. It's fair to talk about their abusers, who identified themselves above all else as cis men, US Americans, Germans and Jews and were enabled by almost all cis men, US Americans, Germans and Jews. To talk about them as exactly that, as cis men, US Americans, Germans and Jews.
Yes, of course it's not cis men, it's patriarchy. It's not US Americans, it's American imperialism, it's not Germans, it's German Nazism, it's not Jews is it's zionist fascism. Not just ideologies, but structures linked to production and reproduction. That must be clear to us. But there are loud privileged people among those who aren't in the group of chosen victims, who want us to never ever use the names of the structures our oppressors build their identities around. At least not when talking about their crimes.
But what is patriarchy? Can you define it without saying "men". Can you tell the history of imperialism without telling the history of the US? Can you tell me what the Nazis thought they were fighting for, without mentioning their German national identity. For whom do the Zionists think they are killing and lightning the world on fire? Who benefits and enjoys the privilege of ruling the patriarchal family, ruling the US empire or ruling an ethnostate?
It's the believe, that men are superior, that US Americans deserve the spoils of imperialism, it's the believe that Germans should rule the world or that Jews must drown the land in blood to build their ethnostate. And even those who didn't actively participate still benefit immensely materially. You have to risk complete exclusion from the respective culture to really reject your bloody privilege.
Yes, male dominance, US imperialism, German Nazism, zionist fascism all have allies outside of their chosen benefactors. Don't pretend I didn't say it. Privileged cis women, comprador rulers, axis countries, evangelical zionists. There are more people living in comprador ruled periphery countries than in the US. It's still the US empire.
That doesn't change the fact, that these ideologies are nothing more or less than the ideologies of chauvinist cis men, of racist US Americans, of racist Germans and of racist Jews, at least in this their enduring oppressive historic moment.
For them to overcome these chauvinist position, to reverse their betrayal of the worlds working class, which happened to their own great benefit but can only lead to their eventual self destruction, to reject their unearned privilege, to escape their fascist death cults, that are build on a single specific identify, these problems have to be named as a problem specific to this identity: Men must address their patriarchal privilege as privileges of men. Today's Imperialism is a US American problem, it has to be fought as such. Never forget the responsibility of Germans for Nazism. And when you mention Zionism, don't pretend it's got nothing to do with Jewish identity as it is understood by most Jews and almost every single Jewish institution.
Yes, we must absolutely not fall into chauvinism and anti-semitism ourselves. We would become tools for further oppression. Liberation will even benefit the oppressors in the end. But in the mean time, let the victims name their abusers by the name those abusers screamed during their torture, if they so choose. Language is nothing but a tool to affect change in the world. Every oppressed class needs to lead the struggle for it's own liberation or it is doomed to fail. Let the victims decide how to use language in their fight for liberation. You can offer ideas, but know when to step back, as long as you're still privileged. Don't impose your strategy on the leaders of the liberation. They are in the best position to know when to coldly analyze the oppressors institutions and ideologies using academic names of ideologies and when to boldly call out individuals by the name they have chosen themselves to tie their crimes to.
We must support the right of queer people, of woman to decide when it is tactically beneficial to talk about problems with "men". And they should be able to do so without screams of "not all men" immediately drowning out any discussion. Cis men should know their place is to offer support instead of leading the feminist struggle.
We must support the right of people from the periphery to speak about "Americans", when they tactically choose this verbal shortcut over the academic "imperial core countries". They will need to liberate themselves on their own terms.
The survivors of the concentration camps said they were rescued from "the Germans". Did the Soviet soldiers rush to correct them:"Not all Germans! We only came to rescue you from the Nazis!". No, that would have been tasteless, uncalled for.
Are you living every day in mortal danger? No? Then If you ever meet a Palestinian who survives this long long genocide (and that's a big if), will you rudely interrupt her if she tells you the story of how she fled from "the Jews"? Will you barge in with a smug:"not all Jews!" Even though her failure to be born as a Jew was exactly what condemned her and her family? Let them tell their own story.
And let's remember to assume some good faith online. We don't know every comrades background.
If it were me, I would worry more about stopping israel from committing genocide in my name than arguing with leftists who are against that genocide.
Right or wrong, the longer that israel exists the more and more people are going to see as OP sees.
Idk about you but I feel a kind of way about seeing one of those six pointed star after seeing enough videos of little kids ripped to shreds by idf soldiers.
this argument is spurious. it takes a few minutes out of someone's day to post, often multitasking with waiting in line or literally shitting in a toilet. Our actual activism does very little to impact geopolitics as it is and the very marginal effort of typing a few words isn't going to make the difference.
If there is no difference then this just is a giant reenactment of waiting for godot except the godot is the end of israel and america killing schoolchildren.
will you be the vladimir to my estragon?
How do you propose this then and why not focus on the US that is responsible for its existance. Say you focus only on the destruction of Israel. There is a real chance if you do that then the US just lashes out to protect its vessel. Israel on the other hand is entirely dependent on the US. Is that and US imperialism not the primary contradiction and Israel simply an extension of that?
Obviously Israel by necessity must be destroyed but I feel like people are making a grave strategic error here.
Because it's (comparatively) easier to focus on the zionist project than it is to focus on the hegemon funding it. The liberation of Palestine would also significantly weaken the US making it easier to liberate other people's and nations. Also the destruction of the US is not a goal in itself. The liberation of people is. So destroying Israel is actually the direct approach from this perspective.
Okay so youre saying destroying israel is a bad goal?
Didn't even read my comment.
The best outcome is the US collapsing itself with this war with Iran while hopefully the regional coalition defends Palestine.
I dont think you actually read my whole comment.
No you said the us will lash out to protect its vassal if israel is destroyed.
Israel is going to fall before america does.
And what will happen then? Should we not be doing everything in our power to prevent what the US is poised to do in response to that?
I also do not believe the US will allow its most important vassal to fall without an omnicidal retaliatory response.
Then the people of Palestine will get their homeland back :)
I prefer a solution that does not involve nukes flying and for that I can only see ensuring the US falls first.
So youre another jewish person giving reasons why palestinians shouldnt immediately get all their land back under a post criticizing that
No I am not I'm just someone in the US fighting the state here. Idk why you make that assumption. If israel does fall first without the US choosing Armageddon that would be great. We all want the same thing here. Really weird that you just assumed I was jewish.
it feels like we dont want the same thing. i want the immediate end of israel and the settlers gone so palestinians stop being genocided and they can go home. youre saying that shouldnt happen because fearmongering of american nuclear threats
No I am not. I am saying it won't happen without people talking direct action against the states that are propping them up. Why do you keep deliberately misinterpreting me?
youre saying palestine needs to wait right now because otherwise our government is going to launch nukes.
how long should they wait johnny 5 years? 10 years?
No they should not. Ideally both fall together. I can't do anything but organize against my own state same goes for everyone. That was in the context of how the us might respond to losing at no point did I say I want them to stop fighting. The hell is wrong with people all trying to find the worst possible interpretation to dunk on each other.
if it feels like dunking then ok lets check if we are on the same page. do you agree that the jewish settlers in palestine should be expelled so palestinians can have the right of return to all territories including the territory stolen in 1948?
Absolutely. No question about that.
I don't see a future where nukes don't fly tbh
Both Israel and the US would rather destroy the world than let the world exist without them.
Yes but one of these scenarios is much worse than the other. Israel can only launch maybe one or two. The US can end the world. I agree our situation is tucked I just think we need to keep our eyes on the primary enablers.
Then should we not focus on Israel first? In their collapse they might launch a few nukes, and then they're spent.
Or are you saying the US will use nuclear weapons if Israel falls? Because I'm actually not sure about that.
That is exactly what I am afraid of. I fear Trump or someone like him might launch them at Iran or a similar target in another stupid war. The US in either case is more dangerous. Israel would implode immediately without western and US backing. The same can not be said in the reverse.
I think collapsing the US is more likely to result in it launching its nukes than collapsing Israel. If Israel collapses the US might start blasting, but more likely the Western hemisphere pilled faction will win out and they'll just retreat.
The US will have to be dismantled from within by civil war, so it nukes itself. The collapse of Israel makes that inevitable.