this post was submitted on 11 May 2026
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Oh no, the free housing isn't fast enough or big enough, oh no, it looks so drab oh no
What did capitalism do for you? How long do you have to wait now to spend 3% of your income on housing instead of 30%+?
I like how you completely disregarded an account by someone who actually lived under the system you're shlupping and immediatley attacked his character. Kinda like how christians react when you tell them Jesus wasn't real, or Ivermectin won't stop covid.
Just remarkable similarity.
Weird, I actually live in the system I want to change, but I guess my experiences don't mean anything, and I should just listen to some random internet stranger about it.
Some of us base our opinions on facts and reason. Is there any actual source on "having to wait 20-30 years for a house?" Or am I just expected to accept that claim completely uncritically?
I can't help but notice how negative claims about communist societies are placed in this special category where expressing any sort of skepticism about them is seen as somehow morally wrong. It reminds me a lot of how questioning the religion I was raised with was seen as wrong, demonstrating a lack of faith. I'm sorry that I don't have enough blind faith in capitalism for you and keep blaspheming against your dogma.
I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to completely disregard your experiences out of hand, correct? Like how you just did to u/BlackLazor. I would hope you wouldn't want someone to do the same to you.
According to Quora the wait time was around 10 years. This person also says a family of four in a very tiny space (less than 20 sqm) was the norm. That account is pretty extensive, with contemporary illustrations to help you understand.
Russia Beyond says the wait time was 6-7 years. Apparently you couldn't apply for an apartment if your current living situation was any better than a broom closet (must be less than 9 sqm per person.) This source also says that Public sector employees (doctors, teachers, etc) had a wait time of 10 or more years. Apparently one could buy an apartment for 10,000 rubles, while the average salary was 150-200 rubles, so about ten times the monthly salary.
Looking at all this, it seems to me what u/Blacklazor said was not incorrect. It may be exaggerated, but the sources say most people lived in cramped apartments with too many people per sqm, were waiting "More than 10 years" to upgrade, and didnt' get to specify which apartment one was given, or where it was located. So far the account checks out.
You know, there really does seem to be a lot of info out there about housing in the USSR, if you're truly serious about wanting to know and not just virtue signaling I'd reccomend doing some googles and actually reading about it. Not being facetious, it's pretty interesting.
Nobody said you were morally wrong. What I did say is that you had the same kind of reaction against u/Blacklazor that a religious person does when confronted with questions of faith, because you did. You completely disregarded the account and made zero effort to assess or examine your own position.
Just like they did to me, when they said the only thing that drew me to communism was "propaganda" as opposed to my time working under capitalism. The difference is that I discounted their unsubstantiated claims about statistical facts while they discounted my own journey.
According to Quora? Great, so now we have two internet randos saying something.
Which is significantly less than what they claimed. So the two internet randos can't even agree. In that case, which of them should I treat as an absolute authority and which one should I "completely disregard the experiences of out of hand" to use your pretentious language?
Finally. Say what you will about Russian state media, but at least it's more of a source than random people on the internet, which you seem to primarily rely on.
Which completely contradicts the other user.
What on earth?? "The account checks out" when they were exaggerating somewhere between 2-5 times the actual numbers?
The claim was not, "you had to wait 20-30 years for an upgrade" it was specifically "You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment." That's completely unsupported by your sources.
It's also the same reaction a scientist tends to have towards a flat-earther. I don't know why you think a random internet person saying things is something that should be treated as a reliable source. If someone says, "I walked and walked for miles and the earth seemed really flat the whole way," am I allowed to "discount their entire experience" or am I supposed to "put effort into reassessing my position" regarding the shape of the earth?
As it turns out, I was 100% right to be skeptical, because your own sources back me up and show that the other person was completely wrong.
Yeah but you did it first.
I mean you could get up off your butt and look yourself if you have a problem with the source I provided. Like I said there's a wealth of information out there regarding the subject. You could also try to dispute my source instead of just dismissing it out of hand - like you did to u/Blacklazor.
Ahh, so you'll trust media from the oppressors you agree with. So basically you're a tankie equvalent of MAGA.
So you didn't actually read anymore about the subject, right? Why am I not suprised.
Read the rest of that paragraph please. I'll post it here to make it easy for you.
I.e. His family of four lived in a 20 sqm apartment (less than 9sqm per person) and would have to wait 20-30 years to get a "piss poor commie block apartment." I don't think it's unreasonable to characterize "waiting 20-30 years" as "never." Now if you'd read the sources I posted you'd see this aligns very closely with what is described - that being most people who weren't rich or connected to an oligarch had to wait more than 10 years for an apartment. I even found a source that broke it down into a nice and helpful chart - see if you can find that source yourself.
I mean, I know you won't becuase this hands your ass to your arguement on a sliver platter with a side of trimmings, and if there's one thing people like you can't stand it's being proved wrong, bu whatever.
Except in real life it wasn't, what u/blacklazor described aligns pretty well with the accounts on both pages.
Skipping the rest of the bullshit you posted for my own mental health. There is a wealth of information that you can get with a few simple googles, please read up and stop embarassing yourself.
No, literally this was from their very first comment.
Again, random internet users are not a credible source. Pointing that fact out is disputing your source. Don't they teach you this in school?
YOU posted the source! If I had rejected it, you'd be attacking me for blindly dismissing anything that contradicts my worldview! Damned if I do, damned if I don't, there's no winning with you.
I literally called attention to the fact that your source is Russian state media, and that you can "say what you will about it," to indicate that it's not fully trustworthy. Were you even aware it was affiliated with the Russian government?
That's not what he said at all. The 20 sqm apartment was the "piss poor commie block apartment" that one would have to wait 20-30 years for.
I did read your sources, and they in fact said that most people had to wait 6-7 years:
"On average, the waiting time to receive an apartment from the state in the USSR was around six to seven years."
In fact, you got it backwards. The part about "over 10 years" is about public sector employees. Even then, 10 is significantly less that "20-30," but I suppose they didn't teach you that either.
Lmao, your source saying 6-7 years in contrast to the claim of 20-30 "hands my ass to my argument on a silver platter with a side of trimmings?" Is there any number that would lead you to admit you're wrong? What would it have to be, 3 years? 1 year? A week? Apparently it can be off by a factor of 5, and you'll still treat it as some kind of smoking gun that proves I won't accept being proven wrong.
The projection is truly off the scales.
The fact that you posted these right next to each other 😆
Whatever son. It's a free country, so go with whatever bullshit you want. The evidence backs up u/Blacklazor and not you, I love how you just can't handle it.
I would also like to point out the parts of his comments that you didn't dispute or don't have a probem with, such as his father "needed to get a permit to leave the country," or that food was "rationed, not subsidized," or the fact that in order to get housing, one must get on a list and wait multiple years in the first place. I mean, yeah that sure does sound like a great place to live.
But please, go do the work and read up on the subject, because you're wrong on pretty much all of your points above. Like this one:
Nope. If you would've actually done the research, you'd have seen that one is usually given a bed in a dormatory, then must get on a waiting list for a "piss poor commie block apartment." The tiny apartment where a family of four is squeezed into 20sqm is after they waited multiple years. This is if they were lucky enough to get an apartment they didn't have to share with multiple other families.
Now please put in the effort and read up on it, because you're really misinformed.
The evidence you presented points to 6-7, not 20-30. I don't know how else to say it, you're just objectively wrong by a factor of 3-5 by your own source, and no amount of pretending otherwise will change that fact.
See, this is the problem. Nowhere did I actually claim that the USSR was some kind of perfect utopia. You just assigned those positions to me because you decided I'm a "tankie" so I must believe that, instead of listening to what I actually say. Attacking me over claims I didn't make is the definition of a strawman.
This, again, is not how it works. If you "actually did the research" then show me the evidence. You can't just allude vaguely to some claim you found somewhere, especially since the sources you've cited so far, a random Quora user and Russian state media you didn't realize was Russian state media, don't exactly fill me with confidence regarding your investigative standards.
It just blows my mind how hypocritical you can be, you found evidence that clearly proves you wrong and you keep projecting on to me that I won't change my mind in the light of evidence that I'm right.
6-7 is less than 20-30. That's really all that needs to be said. You just can't accept that basic mathematical fact because you're an ideologue.
No, I think you refuse to do the research on this subject because you're the actual ideologue here. You have an emotional stake in somehow proving that the USSR wasn't a totalitarian inept impoverished wasteland, and actually learning what life was like under that system would destroy your worldview.
I'm the only one of us capable of acknowledging that 7 is a smaller number than 20. If understanding elementary school level math makes me an ideologue, a tankie, whatever else, then so be it. Nothing you say changes those numbers.
What's more important, what you want to believe or what really happened?
Read up on the subject please.
Tell me, was "what really happened" 6-7 years or 20-30 years? Can you answer that one question?
You're the one rejecting the evidence in favor of what you want to believe.
It was more than 10 years for most people, and up to 20 years or more.
Which you would've known if you'd bothered to do the reading.
Wrong. Your own source said 6-7 years, which you would know if you did the reading. Even then, and this may surprise you to learn, but 10 is also less than 20.
20-30 years is completely and utterly unsupported. It's a total ass pull. And you're trying to claim I'm an ideologue because I'm sticking to the facts instead of this made up bullshit that's contradicted by your own sources.
You really should go to Cuba and stay there. Why change current system if you can just travel and live in your dream paradise?
The small island country that's being threatened and economically isolated by the most powerful and militaristic country on earth? Not my first choice.
Why do anti-communists always suggest moving directly into the crosshairs of imperialism?
Then go to Noth Korea, I don't care
Interesting thread of comments. I kept upvoting both sides of the comments when good points were made.
I think you lost me with Cuba. Probably would've been better to come back with evidence of the 20-30 years claim, or a cited example of some of the systemic dysfunction of life in the USSR instead of jumping to Cuba, arguably the worst current example to pick.
Edit: my bad, you have more responses to others.
I'm tired with arguing with blind dude about colors. I saw shit and lived there, he didn't.