In light of my last reply, I truly believe that the person in the op probably cannot face reform and belongs in a forced labor camp for the rest of her life. I still would not want to kill her though. The ones that actually facilitate or carry out said killings, absolutely. No good can come from keeping them around.

Or maybe I am wrong on this too and given our ideal circumstance a lifetime of labor in service of those they have oppressed or attempted to exterminate is more productive and a fate worse than death. I don't know if we will see that in my sadly limited years left on this planet so maybe it is moot. I just want the violence to stop. All of it. I am tired of fighting.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't care if Fartlow lives or dies in someone's Central Park fantasy, so let me be clear that I'm only arguing this for the sake of the broad ability to assess people. Fartlow can be reformed. Humans are capable of changing massively, even if old habits die hard. It is not as visible to us, but she does not just exist with this malignance in a vacuum, she is a minor appendage of a massive cultural apparatus.

Rehabilitation principally isn't a matter of taking people with negative karma meters and making them positive (speaking in terms of shitty ps3/4 era video games), it is a matter of taking them out of the environments that facilitate a positive feedback loop for bad behaviors and attitudes and putting them in environments that reward being constructive instead.

[–] Johnny_Arson@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think we are of a mind on this. I believe that reform is possible, but in some cases, like hers, likely only through force.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I believe that reform is possible, but in some cases, like hers, likely only through force.

Well yes, people usually don't reform themselves and the systems that make them this way usually resist non-violent methods of reorganizing them. Fartlow, though, is fundamentally a pathetic person that poses no threat as an individual - she's not a leader, she's a follower, to put it in binary terms. This is the person who was afraid of a "Free Parking" sign. If you put her in an environment that rewards not being a genocidal monster (as @purpleworm@hexbear.net said), then she would likely stop being a genocidal monster fairly quickly because, as I said, she's pathetic and I doubt she has actual convictions of any kind about anything.

[–] Johnny_Arson@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

the systems that make them this way usually resist non-violent methods of reorganizing them

During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, etc. etc. yes I know.

I just don't want to be the soldier anymore. I want to cook, I want to create, I want to entertain the little ones, I want to teach!

Unfortunately history and our material conditions has chosen a different path for me. I am capable of incredible violence and it is a thing I both cherish and must reckon with. It is not a good thing but a thing I recognize will be regrettably necessary.

[–] Ithorian@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

[–] Johnny_Arson@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

I love this. I feel this in my soul.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

Absolutely. Some people need to be forced (as most people already acknowledge about rehabilitation to some degree), I just think the outcome of that force can be a successful rehabilitation and a happy life where someone can engage in a constructive and genuine way with their community.