Friendly reminder: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/yes-science-is-political/
this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2025
2100 points (97.5% liked)
Science Memes
16260 readers
3434 users here now
Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!
A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.
Rules
- Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
- Keep it rooted (on topic).
- No spam.
- Infographics welcome, get schooled.
This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.
Research Committee
Other Mander Communities
Science and Research
Biology and Life Sciences
- !abiogenesis@mander.xyz
- !animal-behavior@mander.xyz
- !anthropology@mander.xyz
- !arachnology@mander.xyz
- !balconygardening@slrpnk.net
- !biodiversity@mander.xyz
- !biology@mander.xyz
- !biophysics@mander.xyz
- !botany@mander.xyz
- !ecology@mander.xyz
- !entomology@mander.xyz
- !fermentation@mander.xyz
- !herpetology@mander.xyz
- !houseplants@mander.xyz
- !medicine@mander.xyz
- !microscopy@mander.xyz
- !mycology@mander.xyz
- !nudibranchs@mander.xyz
- !nutrition@mander.xyz
- !palaeoecology@mander.xyz
- !palaeontology@mander.xyz
- !photosynthesis@mander.xyz
- !plantid@mander.xyz
- !plants@mander.xyz
- !reptiles and amphibians@mander.xyz
Physical Sciences
- !astronomy@mander.xyz
- !chemistry@mander.xyz
- !earthscience@mander.xyz
- !geography@mander.xyz
- !geospatial@mander.xyz
- !nuclear@mander.xyz
- !physics@mander.xyz
- !quantum-computing@mander.xyz
- !spectroscopy@mander.xyz
Humanities and Social Sciences
Practical and Applied Sciences
- !exercise-and sports-science@mander.xyz
- !gardening@mander.xyz
- !self sufficiency@mander.xyz
- !soilscience@slrpnk.net
- !terrariums@mander.xyz
- !timelapse@mander.xyz
Memes
Miscellaneous
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Apparantly, (in the US) any protest that needs to occupy the road requires a permit. Yea imagine how stupid it is, you want to protest the government and you need to apply for permission?!? I was shocked when my teacher told me about this. Seems like a huge First Amendment violation to me, but society just goes along with it. π
So unless your protest is strictly on the sidewalk, you need a permit. So fucking dumb.
Murrica is not nearly as free as people think it is
Depends how much money you have. Poor college students will have to follow the laws.
Technically it's the same in France. I'll let you figure how much that stops anyone...
Some people say that French people have guillotines in their DNA π
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_site
So that's why they're so car centric with their infrastructure, more sidewalls = more protests
I think itβs probably like more roads = more permits needed to protest.
Iβm in the US and all too familiar with how car centric our infrastructure is. On top of the permit thing, our angry rushed populace will demonize you for protesting anything if youβre blocking the road to do it. You could be giving CPR to a toddler and within minutes some emotional support truck would be running you over or rolling coal in your face.
Its the same everywhere, doesn't mean it's not dumb but that's how it is.
Well yeah, keep your dumbasses out the fucking street.
Public roadways are for travel.
that's literally why blocking roads in protest is so effective. enough angry calls to the mayor office due to people being late for work etc, is how protesting puts pressure on representatives to actually represent the people.
or did you think that huddling on sidewalks holding signs was supposed to do something?
Blocking roads in protest has proven effective at exactly one thing: Increasing the enforcement and penalties for jaywalking.
It is counterproductive at everything else.
Where did I say huddle on sidewalks?
I think JSO should be firebombing ICE car dealerships, gas stations, muffler shops, and other entities and agents of the oil industry. Not harassing victims of that industry.
Well... no.
Excellent retort, but I can cite the legislative record supporting my point.
I can cite many news articles which show that protesting in this way is more effective.
No doubt, no doubt. There are plenty of articles claiming JSO protests are effective.
Of course, if they were actually effective, you wouldn't need to point to news articles promoting the virtues of standing around in the street. You'd be able to point to oil consumption rates. If their protests were actually effective, oil consumption rates would be falling.
The reality is that those articles do nothing but make you feel good, like something is being done. But reality doesn't care about feelings, or the fiddling articles designed to make us feel good while the world burns.
If that is the only metric you are looking it, kind of. It slumped during COVID and has looked like it's tailing off somewhat. Without tax breaks, subsidies and support for other forms of transport, say, we will not shake our dependence.
But, we can look at specific countries and see if those things have helped on a national scale, like Norway, for example, which has seen consumption decline since 2018. And Sweden. And Japan. And Germany. And...
They started obstructing traffic in 2022, not 2018. Norway's consumption has increased, significantly, since they began obstructing traffic.
Japan's decline since then is commensurate with its population decline. Germany's and Sweden's are flat. UK is up even more than Norway.
I am telling you when their trend started. Norway's consumption has not increased, it is down on 2018, as I said. It had a slight decline in 2023 (the increase between 2020 and 2022 is when people stopped driving during COVID then came back to restart its downward trend).
Actually no, if you know what commensurate means. The population has dropped around 4% since 2008, yet oil consumption has been decreasing since 1996.
Germany is similar in terms of consumption, Sweden likewise.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/oil-consumption-by-country
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
JSO didn't exist in 1996 or 2008 or 2018 or 2020. It was founded in 2022.
You're giving JSO traffic obstructions credit for declines that happened decades before they came into existence, and in countries where they havent actually disrupted traffic.
You're giving them credit for "declines" that have actually been increases since the time they started regularly obstructing traffic in 2022.
Obstructing traffic is not an effective means of protest. Target actual agents and entities associated with the oil industry, not the victims.
Sigh... and how would you like to quantify that when there are so many factors?
They are effective and bring about awareness among other things.
I would like to spend less time talking to environmentalists about useless people harassing victims of the oil industry, and more time actually targeting the oil industry.
For that, you don't need to identify massive, centralized oil infrastructure. You need to look at the oil industry's agents and operations within your own community. There is no shortage of businesses associated with the supplies and maintenance of ICE vehicles. Every one of those businesses needs to feel direct pressure to focus on EVs, other transportation alternatives, or go out of business.
Gas/petrol stations and car dealerships, for example. Set a standard for them to follow; target them for an appropriate degree of hostility when they don't.
For gas stations, they can install at least as many EV charging stations as they have fuel pumps.
For dealerships, they must offer more EVs than ICE vehicles, and the sticker price of those EVs must be equal to or lower than comparable ICE vehicles.
Businesses that meet these standards are supporting the "transportation" industry. Businesses that fail to meet these standards are supporting the "oil" industry.
JSO's website makes it clear that "arrests" are an important part of their demonstrations. There are plenty of arrest-worthy actions they can take at a gas station. They can create plenty of "awareness" at an ICE car dealership, and they can do it without convincing the general public to support cops and right-wing politicians.
Jaywalking isn't even illegal where I live.
Give JSO time to lobby your legislators. They'll get around to it.
No shit sherlock.
You say that. And yet, certain people need to be reminded of this simple fact.
You would have a point if "protesting" was "life". But it's not.
When demonstrators were pissed off at Elon Musk, they didn't picket grocery stores and kindergartens. they didnt blockade old folks homes, delay firefighters and ambulances.
They burned Tesla dealerships.
JSO could learn a thing or two from these anti-Musk demonstrators.
Me and my band of merry travelling protesters will just be on our way then.
Excellent.
Might I suggest that instead of targeting fellow victims for undue harassment, you direct your attention toward the actual perpetrators and their supporters? For environmental causes, might I suggest some sort of shop where an oil-based product like gasoline or diesel fuel is sold? Perhaps an entity that sells or services the vehicles that consume those fuels.
Perhaps you could publish a manifesto telling the public and these businesses alike what businesses need to do in order to avoid Molotov-flavored "civil disobedience". Things like "a majority of the cars on a dealer's lot must be EVs" and "EVs should be priced lower than comparable ICE vehicles". Or "fuel stations should have at least as many charging stations as fuel pumps".
When you publish your manifesto, make sure it gets sent to insurance companies, preferably the companies insuring the businesses responsible for the environmental catastrophe we are facing.
We have enough laws against public use of the street. There is no need to demonstrate for more.
No I donβt think I will.
Fair enough. I leave you and your merry band to continue on your irrelevant way.
Right in the middle of the road!
Whatever you say, honey.
That permit is worth as much to them as the original piece of paper in the scene.