Rivalarrival

That's awesome. Is she single?

Widdershins

I think I saw that movie.

Nah. They are Mt. Olive. Not even Vlasic, let alone something actually edible.

That's fine. The tree of liberty could use some refreshing.

The thing is, if everyone’s retired and nobody’s working,

Where do you get the idea that nobody is working with UBI?

UBI isn't supposed to be your entire, or even your primary source of income. The most basic concept of UBI is supposed to be enough for a roof over your head, rice and beans in your belly, and that's about it. It's supposed to cover the absolute essentials, not your entire lifestyle. It is supposed to remove the desperation of subsistence.

When a man is drowning, he'll do anything to survive. When his lungs start filling with water, he'll drown his wife and kids just for one more breath of air. When a worker is desperate, they will take any work on any exploitative terms that are offered, just to put a meal in their belly. That desperation drags down wages and conditions for everyone. The fundamental purpose of UBI is to ensure that even the most desperate among us aren't forced into exploitation, and in doing so, drag everyone down with them.

There is no shortage of labor. We have a massive excess of labor. We have so much labor available that even though everybody currently needs to work, wages are so low that nobody has any money to spend on anything but essentials. The economy is stagnating because everybody is working, but nobody is buying anything.

UBI is a long-term solution to this untenable situation.

You misread the IRS form that you think demonstrates that. It is not doing anything of the sort.

They pay social security taxes on the first 184k/yr. They do not pay taxes on that part of their income above 184k.

They do, actually, receive social security checks, regardless of income or need, beginning at (or possibly before) the age of 70. Since they've been paying in the maximum, they are receiving the maximum benefit, $4152 per month, rather than the median benefit of $2083 per month.

You are wrong on both counts.

Further, there is a very strong correlation between income level and life expectancy. The median worker is typically collecting that $2083/mo benefit until age 76. But the median life expectancy of the wealthy is 9 years longer: They are typically collecting that $4152 benefit until age 85.

The people you are talking about are the ones posing the very highest drain on the system.

Yeah? Cars replaced horses for most Americans.

The mechanism of operation is so different that they cannot be considered the same thing. Even though they are used for similar purposes, they are not reasonably comparable.

and only a fraction of that would actually end up on the food.

A pension is not a retirement fund either, from the perspective of the worker and the worker's family. A pension is paid to the worker for the remainder of the worker's life, regardless of the amount the worker has paid into the fund. If they put in 20 years worth of payments and live 40 years, they collect 40 years of payments. If they live only two months, they only collect two months of payments.

I would agree that social security is comparable to a pension or retirement insurance, in that the payout is not necessarily commensurate with the pay-in.

A 401k is a fund. If the worker puts in 20 years of payments, and only lives two months, the worker's heirs receive 19 years and 10 months worth of payments.