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submitted 2 months ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 59 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think there is a very fine line between prescribing language because of a world view that insists on conformity, and correcting grammer and vocabulary because being clear and understood is kinda the point of language.

[-] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I don't think it's that hard, the line is mainly "is this hard to understand?" If yes then correcting or discussing it is not prescriptivism, if no, then you're just being pedantic

Just take texting or internet comments for example, how many are missing punctuation? How many are using slang terms or shortenings of words? How many are straight up omitting/skipping words? How many are making liberal use of language to either express themselves or have some emotional impact? Or just don't put in the effort to do grammar

After all, I miss punctuation in this very comment as well, especially at the end of paragraphs, in addition to skipping words or making liberal use of language like "do grammar". Is that grammatically correct? Absolutely not, but you understand what I mean

Assuming informal communication, of course. Formal communication is more about being proper, and ties into cultural norms of formality etc

[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 months ago

"Hard to understand?" Is a question more complex than it might appear on the surface. There are obvious examples of ambiguity in speech which lead to complete misunderstanding.

But "hard to understand?" may also satisfy the criteria of "effort to understand". Just because a message was understood does not mean the audience was able to hear it effortlessly. And that boils down to consideration.

It's a two way street. Correcting mistakes because of apparent lack of effort is probably not warranted, but a speaker is not entitled to a happy audience either

As with many online feuds, I think a lot of these problems typically arise because of a lack of operating under the assumption others are acting in good faith.

[-] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 months ago

If course, ultimately language is about (efficient) communication. And as long as that is satisfied, grammar is secondary. Like if there is ambiguity, asking for clarification is very much not pedantic

There is of course some nuance and leeway, but I still think it's fairly obvious where the line goes

But ultimately, yes, language is nuanced and constantly evolving, it's very neat though

[-] stephen01king@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago

See, I could understand you just find despite you writing "If course", but if you try to say to me that is not a mistake simply because I could understand you, I cannot at all agree with your logic of what makes it the language "correct".

[-] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 months ago

I never said it makes the language "correct", more that language is fluid and there's no need to correct people

Unless a typo or spelling mistake is so common it becomes widely used, it's fair to say it's just a mistake

[-] thurmite@lemm.ee 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I know this is, like, counter to your argument, which I fully agree with, but… I am triggered by the lack of periods at the end of your paragraphs.

[-] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago

However, when you put periods at the end of stuff like text messages, it sounds almost passive aggressive, doesn't it?

It's the difference between

"Okay"

And

"Okay."

[-] thurmite@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

Oh definitely. Context is everything.

Imagine getting hit with “K.”

[-] srestegosaurio@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago

I always punctuate everything and most people think I'm just angry. It's not that I'm a prescriptivist, I just take it as a game.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

I agree completely and have nothing to add, but I felt compelled to put my username under both of yours.

[-] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 months ago

Skyes unite

[-] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Some may call it prescriptivism, but I'll never accept "a few bad apples" as an excuse for horrible shit from bad people in an organization, not just because it's a gross misreading of the original meaning, but also that bad apples actually do chemically spoil the rest of the bunch as they rot.