this post was submitted on 04 May 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/15001340

"Such an invasion could lead to horrific massacres and raise scenarios of a second Nakba," the Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights said recently. "After 200 days of horrific genocidal acts in Gaza, the real objectives of the attack are the continuation of the 76-year-long ongoing Nakba and the erasure and genocidal destruction of the Palestinian people in Gaza. Israel is laying the groundwork to fulfill its settler-colonial plan of colonizing Gaza."

Human rights defenders have warned that Israel may ultimately seek to ethnically cleanse as many Palestinians as possible from Gaza.

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[–] athos77@kbin.social 168 points 6 months ago (7 children)

Israel would "move people out of Rafah, the main humanitarian hub in the enclave, to al-Mawasi

Yeah, that's not their plan. There's 1.42 million people in Rafah right now, which is 25 square miles. That gives it a population density of 56,800 per square mile, making it the 25th most densely populated city in the world - and with intact infrastructure enough for only a tiny fraction of that number.

So, Israel supposedly wants to move all these people to al-Mawasi. Now, al-Mawasi is barren, with; the last official count I could find said there were about 1500 people living there in a small Bedouin town. It's also only about six square miles total.

Let's say that Hamas is 10% of the population - I don't think it is, but let's use that number. That means there's 1,278,000 innocent civilians they want to move to al-Mawasi. That would mean a population density of 213,000 per square mile. That would be twice the population density of Manila. And there is no infrastructure. They're just taking a million people and throwing them into a barren desert next to the sea and saying, "Not our problem." There's no food, no water, no toilets, no shelter, no medical facilities, no electricity, no shelter from the heat - and no way to quickly make any of these things appear in enough quantity to matter.

The Palestinians are already on the verge of famine. This will make things worse, and disease is absolutely going to decimate the population. And then they'll decide that al-Mawasi is hiding Hamas, and they'll go after that as well.

Fuck Israel.

[–] streetfestival@lemmy.ca 23 points 6 months ago

Shrewd analysis - thanks for sharing!

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 20 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Let’s say that Hamas is 10% of the population - I don’t think it is, but let’s use that number.

The Palestinians are already on the verge of famine. This will make things worse, and disease is absolutely going to decimate the population.

Decimation was the Roman practice of killing 1 out of every 10 mutinous/deserter (i.e., guilty of something) soldiers to punish an entire legion while still keeping it operational as a combat unit. Here we have the opposite. It is killing 9 innocents to get to also kill 1 additional (very hypothetically) guilty person.

This is the saddest "um ackchyually" I have ever written.

[–] theparadox@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The Palestinians are already on the verge of famine.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/05/middleeast/gaza-famine-world-food-programme-intl-hnk/index.html

Northern Gaza is experiencing a “full-blown famine” which is rapidly spreading across the strip...the World Food Programme warned

Gaza is not that big. The situation is already horrific and it's about to get so much worse.

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[–] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 12 points 6 months ago

Okay hear me out… what if Israel checked every person and put a tattoo on their arm if they were not Hamas. Do you think they’ll catch the irony?

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago

It's going to be a lot worse than mere "decimation".

[–] WhyDoYouPersist@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago

Thank you for your research.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 93 points 6 months ago (1 children)

"Go to Rafah and you'll be safe. Also, fuck you and get out of Rafah or we'll kill you."

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 6 months ago

You just summarized zionism (fascism)

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 29 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (10 children)

Common Dreams can be a little much some times. Here's Politico's take which is a bit more dry.

Some important notes though. Aid groups absolutely dispute that there's an ability to fit everyone in the designated area; feed the people that can fit; and that Israel will allow everyone who wants to evacuate to do so in good faith.

So there are very good objections to this plan. If the IDF let people pass without mass arrests or randomly deciding to shoot at the people crossing their lines then that would be good. But it has not been the norm. Which brings us to the next problem. The IDF has behaved so criminally, the people of Gaza do not trust their announcements of where to go for safety.

At this point the only correct answer is an immediate ceasefire. The removal of all IDF troops from Gaza. And an international war crimes tribunal.

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

Only correct answer is an multi-national subjugation force to kill the IDF forces in Gaza, then push into Israel and take the current government into custody to be put on Nuremberg-style trials while setting up an interim government in Israel.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Netanyahu's war crimes, but that's something that's never going to happen. Far more likely is evidence continues to go to the ICC and arrest warrants rain from the skies. Then there's a bunch of conservative Israelis who are stuck in Israel or Russia/China aligned countries. And they have to live with the knowledge that they are the new low hanging political piñata for every American president who needs a polling bump.

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[–] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (10 children)

How trustable is this source? Just curious because never knew about the site.

EDIT: you can downvote, that’s okay. But I would appreciate an actual answer as well.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 6 months ago

It's a super partisan one. I don't know if they lie, but they definitely spin.

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[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago
[–] Ballistic_86@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

Ghettos of WW2 are making a comeback, who’s forcing people into those ghettos will SHOCK you!

[–] NoLifeGaming@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

“Many of us like to ask ourselves, ‘What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?’ The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now.”

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 9 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I don't doubt for one second that Israel is likely planning something like this. But let's be careful about using sources that are just as biased as the ones that the other side uses.

If you're reporting on news from some far-left website while at the same time decrying right-wing bias like Fox News and it's ilk, then you lose the moral high ground.

There's plenty of regular journalism that documents Israel's bullshit without having to resort to non-credible sources. Stick to that or there's no point in fighting because we've already lost.

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago (9 children)

You might not agree with their left wing bias but you can't realistically argue that Common Dreams is not a credible source.

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[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

You're right. It's still to early to call if israel is planning to kill all Palestinians and commit Ethnic Cleansing. Who knows, can you even call Genocide a Genocide? Let's ask the israeli government about this

Israeli finance minister calls for 'utter destruction' of Gaza's Rafah, end to truce talks

“No half jobs. Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat, total and utter destruction,” Smotrich said, referring to the two cities in Gaza and the Nuseirat refugee camp.

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[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago (3 children)

This description given by CommonDreams is by far the most accurate one.

To call this unbalanced is to pretend that israel is not committing Genocide or Ethnic cleansing.

When every shitty propaganda outlet shills for israel ~~killing~~ "dying" people we're supposed to look the other way. But when a NEWSpaper goes "israel is doing Genocide" everyone loses their jimmies. The hypocrisy is astounding.

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[–] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 6 months ago

This news outlet is disreputable.

[–] pumpkinseedoil@feddit.de 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If they really do that the irony of Jews doing ethnic cleansing would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 116 points 6 months ago (8 children)

Please don't call Israel "the Jews." I am a Jew and I do not stand with Israel. Israel wants you to think all Jews are Israelis and all Israelis are Jews.

[–] PseudorandomNoise@lemmy.world 28 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Just to add to this; half of the global Jewish population lives in the US. We’re not all Israeli.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 21 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Yep, I've never even been to Israel. I don't particularly want to go other than seeing the archaeology. I was born in Indiana. I have far more in common with Christians from Indiana than I do a Jew from Haifa.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 28 points 6 months ago

The fun thing with the people downvoting my above comment is that it's hard to know if they're pissed off because I don't support Israel or don't like that I'm a Jew.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 6 months ago

Me too. I'm seriously considering buying a kippah to visually make this point.

For the sake of completeness, Israel does happen to be Jewish, just like Hamas happens to be Muslim. And yeah, in light of recent history that's ironic. Hopefully nobody here has forgotten we don't all agree with our (distant, in my case) relatives.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 6 months ago (7 children)

I am not a Jew, but I have to recognize that many of the people most fiercely standing up against Israeli human rights violations are Jews.

In the USA, Bernie Sanders, Robbert Reich and Chuck Schumer are three Jewish politicians that have been very consistent in their messaging.

[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 9 points 6 months ago

I’d argue they’re notable because they’re Jewish, and are afforded an odd ‘extra legitimacy’ to criticize Israel because of that - until the ‘self hating Jew’ trope is brought out…

I am constantly disappointed that society as a whole cannot see through the obvious ploys by the hyper-partisans to hijack and disrupt honest discussion by treating all criticism as anti-Semitic

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[–] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

Biden's solution will be to rush them billions in more money and weapons

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