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submitted 3 months ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/news@hexbear.net
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[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 42 points 3 months ago

Yeah, but if we measure in a real economic measurement, like BPH (Burgers Per Hour) then the US firmly stands on top as the strongest economy.

I do think it's very likely that the US economists will just use increasingly obtuse measurements to pretend that the US economy is stronger.

[-] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 26 points 3 months ago
[-] Thordros@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago

"Fun" aside: Did you know that if you cause a mass-casualty event the US, GDP goes up? Those healthcare costs aren't going to pay for themselves, sis! Stephen Paddock generated more revenue for hospitals in Clark County than you or I ever will in our lives.

[-] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 39 points 3 months ago

"Hide your strength, bide your time." deng-smile

America is still in denial about being a smaller economy than China even though it has been for years. They'll probably add a few more trillion in financial smoke and mirrors to keep up the illusion.

[-] idkmybffjoeysteel@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago

The economy is when you bail out financial services, and the more banks you bail out, the higher your GDP is.

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago

Gonna triple the prices of houses to get those numbers up! Production!

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 34 points 3 months ago

Yeah but all of China's GDP is useless crap like high speed trains and manufacturing. They've already fallen hopelessly behind in key areas of GDP like consultant and lawyer fees, rent people who own their houses would have paid (real thing, look up "imputed rent") and selling jpgs of apes to each other.

[-] Beaver@hexbear.net 18 points 3 months ago

Purchasing Power Parity is a fake metric because it doesn't take into account important economic activities such as advertisement, addiction optimization, financial products with impossible-to-detangle risk profiles, and monetized political outrage. If you properly account for that, you will see that US economic output far exceeds China's fake economy!

[-] What_Religion_R_They@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago

don't forget that China's GDP doesn't even include buying useless shit off Temu from China, the true marker of a well developed economy

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago
[-] pooh@hexbear.net 28 points 3 months ago

This just means China will collapse any second now

[-] Tabitha@hexbear.net 15 points 3 months ago

China can remain growing longer than you can upload daily collapse videos.

[-] besbin@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 3 months ago

It would be a great future. But we must not be complacent and stop. The USSR was also projected to surpassed the empire before.

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago

That was probably projected when relations between the USSR and the west were better. The difference here is that projection is more or less set in stone unless the west wants to commit suicide economically. Remember the west needs China more than China needs the west.

[-] gaycomputeruser@hexbear.net 25 points 3 months ago

Imna be real, the growth rates do not persist.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 months ago

I mean, obviously this won't go on forever, but China is a country of 1.4 billion, so it can reasonably aim for at least triple the US economy.

[-] gaycomputeruser@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago

That is true! There is a place where they'll end up, but predicting based on long term extrapolation isn't usually good.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago

As a rule I agree, but I think in this particular case we do have a pretty good track record in China, and they do publish their 5 year plans so we know what their targets are. In this case it's more nuanced than just saying they're going to keep growing because they have been growing.

[-] gaycomputeruser@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago

That's a really good point. They do seem to have a habit of doing what they set out to. I see what you mean now, I was thinking too capitalist.

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago

The growth rates are a strange entity to begin with. Mainstream Chinese economists expect that China's growth will slow down eventually as their overall GDP rises, analogous to other high-GDP countries. This usually goes hand-in-hand with stressing the need for a transition to more domestic markets and balanced production (i.e. less focused on export and building productive forces at the expense of domestic workers).

At the same time, since GDP just measures "the sum of all the crap sold" and because the commanding heights of China's economy are controlled by the CPC, it is possible for it to have a somewhat different trajectory than the other high-GDP countries, as all of those other countries are also the imperialist order, they structure their economies around extraction from the global south (a small number have been propped up by empire as bases for attack, e.g. occupied Korea).

Basically... China will be in somewhat new territory in its attempt to build a high-GDP economy with a balanced productive sector not dependent on massively unequal exchange. As others (maybe you?) correctly note, the USSR was on this trajectory, albeit at breakneck speed and with less overall productive development than China - and without the interdependence that Dengist strategies created.

The basic question will be whether China can keep making more and larger amounts of things and services that are sold somewhere. Part of this will be what prices they can charge, and whether they can be higher prices than now, and this will depend on domestic consumption and pay as well as the dynamics of exports, especially whether other countries can similarly develop productive forces or if they'll just go the more likely direction of being neocolonies that make simpler products and with less concentrated industry.

Personally... I have no idea. I just think it's new territory.

[-] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 25 points 3 months ago

pronouns ChInA Is CoLlApsInG ANy DaY nOw!

[-] Ocommie63@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 3 months ago

Great news, truly the death of capitalism and neoliberalism in particular is imminent, I dont know what will happen to me or others stuck in the belly of this dying monster but at least I can be glad that it is in fact, dying.

[-] makotech222@hexbear.net 19 points 3 months ago

Truly I want to live long enough to see the end of america

[-] FuckBigTech347@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 3 months ago

Same. But I also want to live long enough to experience the world post collapse, at least for a little bit.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago

the death of capitalism

I wouldn't be so sure, but I guess it's good to be on some level of hopium marx-doomer

[-] invo_rt@hexbear.net 22 points 3 months ago

xigma-male SORRY BUT THE GDP GROWTH WILL CONTINUE

porky-scared-flipped qin-shi-huangdi-fireball

[-] Mokey@hexbear.net 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Sorry China is collapsing and its the end of China according to accurate sources

Actually by building high speed rail and having too much of it they no longer have any construction projects and the economy will slown down

[-] ProfessorAdonisCnut@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago

High Speed Rail Imperialism, The Highest Stage of State Capitalism

[-] pinguinu@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 months ago

They are MASSACRING slow trains, it must be STOPPED!

[-] Beaver@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Question:

China's military budget is ~$230 billion

USA's military budget is ~$850 billion

Since the USA's military-industrial-complex primarily functions as political patronage, and is only secondarily about maintaining empire, is it possible that the actual purchasing power of the Chinese military budget is fairly close to what the USA is getting out of their budget? Especially since China's military has a more limited mission, and so doesn't need the same level of capabilities for power projection that the USA does.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Since the USA's military-industrial-complex primarily functions as political patronage, and is only secondarily about maintaining empire, is it possible that the actual purchasing power of the Chinese military budget is fairly close to what the USA is getting out of their budget?

I can answer this!

https://www.twz.com/china-acquiring-new-weapons-five-times-faster-than-u-s-warns-top-official

As well as the sheer speed with which Beijing is able to acquire new weapons, Holt contends, the Chinese are also operating far more efficiently. “In purchasing power parity, they spend about one dollar to our 20 dollars to get to the same capability,” he told his audience. “We are going to lose if we can’t figure out how to drop the cost and increase the speed in our defense supply chains,” Holt added.

“We have no competing fighting chance against China in 15 to 20 years,” Chaillan told the FT. “Right now, it’s already a done deal; it is already over in my opinion.

Words of Cameron G. Holt, major general, in charge of all aspects of contracting.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago

I would imagine that the actual purchasing power of Chinese military far surpasses the US. Even Russia is able to outproduce the US militarily, and China is in a whole different league in terms of industrial power.

[-] Rx_Hawk@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Can the world stop competing with GDP? It’s nonsense and leads to overproduction, overconsumption, and waste. It’s a “who can ruin the planet faster” competition.

If the entire world’s GDP needs to fall so that we can reduce population growth, emissions, and hunger, so be it.

this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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