I mean we can also make long lasting clothes out of natural fibers without hurting animals.
Not everywhere. Many places its much more sustainable to make clothes from the animals you are eating and it makes sure that you aren't wasting any of the life you've taken that you need to survive.
Wool is one of those natural fibers that can be harvested without harming the animal. Even if you end up eating the goat/sheep, it can provide a few coats of wool before hand.
Yes this is true but a lot of places can't mantain a sheep herd, because it is too cold or to dry for grasses and food for the sheep
In Ireland where there are a lot of sheep theyre an ecological disaster (if you think having biologically diverse forests is a good thing)
You also don't need to eat the animals to survive.
True...and you don't need to live in a house, or use the Internet, or have a bank account, or have a computer/mobile...all things that have caused catastrophic damage to the environment and killed countless animals.
One has to draw a line somewhere- perhaps you shouldn't be holier than though just because you draw the line at "I don't want to see the evidence of the death"
Maybe YOU don't have to eat animals to survive. What a privilege u you have that you live in a place where vegetation can be grown in your area or more likely shipped there cheaply(not free of harm to the environment or people\animals). But your experience is not universal there are places on earth that people live where that is not an option. And some of those people have been living there sustainably for 10s of thousands of years. Not to speak of people who's body needs meat to live because of some other reason. You can not eat animals and that's fine but it doesn't replace the science of how to stop environmental damage.
Obviously if someone needs to eat meat to live I'm not going to object. And people living sustainably and not just supporting the animal ag industry are also off the hook in my books.
But in regards to your weird vegetation stuff, I hope you're aware that the livestock are raised on vegetation and will typically consume more calories of feed than they provide with meat? This is a large part of why the Amazon is being deforested, it's to feed livestock, not vegans. The science on how to stop environmental damage is pretty clear on that one.
It's more sustainable to eat the animals you make clothes from.
You can indeed. But growing cotton has already resulted in environmental changes beyond my comprehension.
I guess the first step should be to adapt a habit of clothes repair
Growing cattle has also had a massive impact on the environment. And you often need more land for animal based materials because you both need land for the animals and the land to grow food for the animals. With cotton at least you just need land for the cotton.
I dare you to travel to Uzbekistan and see for yourself what's needed to grow cotton for the whole region.
Why is this always brought up, stop spreading this. Animals usually are not fed grain unless it's harvesting time. We also do not grow food just to feed them. The grain we feed animals is shit you cannot eat. It's roots/stalks/stems/bad/rotted plant matter. It's the leftovers from the greens we can consume. Most animals also are raised on land that is not suitable for crops, rocky/hilly/weak topsoil land.
Mate, I have three chickens at home and I feed them a scratch mix that is mostly grain. I think you’re talking out of your arse, and I strongly doubt you have any actual animal husbandry experience.
Animals products are less efficient for a simple energy reason. Animals produce heat which radiates away as lost energy, and they rely on consuming autotrophs. All life gets its energy from the sun, we as animals get it one or two down the food chain from plants or other animals (which are also eating plants). Animal-based products are simply less efficient.
And cow feed is also grown with tons of pesticides and you need much more of it for less tissue at the end.
I have hard time seeing clothing with a bigger environmental than leather.
But one could also use linen, hemp, ramie/urtica/nettle. However, they are more complicated to process and as the results are textiles, they are not windproof or water repellent.
What do you think most clothes were made out of before polyester? Most people wore cotton, linen, or wool clothes. The first two are from plants, the last one doesn't kill the animal. Hemp was also a major source of textile. Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?
Nevermind how downright bad leather is for most clothing applications. It's high maintenance, stiff, non-breathing, non-padding and cannot be repaired easily. There's a reason it was only used for specific parts of clothing in specific situations once we had figured out stuff like cotton or wool.
Wool is more of a byproduct of the lamb meat industry these days, so wool and meat are inextricably entangled. I'm a sheep farmer, last couple years we threw the wool away due to lack of demand. Nobody is raising sheep just for wool.
However this is a problem with our distorted markets and not with the sheep industry, this valuable fiber is being dumped or burned while we pump out synthetic crap. It costs us more to remove it from the sheep to keep them from overheating, than we can sell it for.
I can't wear wool. It physically hurts and causes a rash. I want to like wool. I want to wear wool. I can appreciate that wool is good. But even cashmere I'd like sandpaper.
I think we all know what the solution is. We need to genetically engineer a sheep that is 15 times as big with wool 200 times softer the reproduces by laying eggs, and make it so that it produces mostly drone sheep that are able to care for it without human intervention, grooming it attentively and instinctually building large hives out of the coarse wool we currently call wool, so that all we have to do is harvest the total wool to have cuddly soft garments in cute colors.
Leather doesn't breathe and you don't kill sheep for their wool. What are you talking about?
And most people wore clothes that came from plants, like cotton and linen. Leather and fur were not for commoners, and are not sustainable compared to plants.
Nice example of a false equivalency...
Last time I checked we didnt have to kill sheep to get their wool to make clothes. Does wool not last as long or did I miss something?
And we are missing cotton
You don't have to kill animals, though. You can make leather out of plants.
That's 85 percent plastic
Actually most leather seems to be coated in plastic as well.
I actually just watched a nice video on vegan leather vs animal leather and comparing the ecological impact (as well as other factors)
isnt there this mushroom based fakeleather stuffthingie?
this for example:
https://mylo-unleather.com/material/
ok the animation is kinda gross... if you find fungi gross, but i think these are just fun little guys also, i guess its more of a thing in the future when there is more competition in the market of mycelium based textiles or whatever and prices arent that crazy..
I've looked at some plant based leather alternatives, and most of them mostly contain polyurethane or a similar plastic. Additionally, they tend to be not very durable.
Leather is a by-product of dairy and beef production, there is vastly more leather than we use for garments. Most of it gets processed into pet food or makeup or automotive lubricants or who knows what
You are on the right track. Hides are a byproduct. Nobody kills animals for them.
Once the hides are turned into leather, they are no longer biodegradable.
JUST BE NAKED
Never understood the leather/fur hate. But I'm also not vegetarian.
I don’t eat meat but do wear leather. I figure enough people will eat the beef anyways. I also try to buy my leather secondhand and take good care of it. If you treat it right it’ll outlast you.
Because it's rational to hate when people kill other living beings just to wear their skin. That's fucking bizarre and grotesque.
It's extremely not bizarre. Their skin is very useful, when prepared right. We've been doing it for about as long as we've been humans.
We've been doing it for about as long as we've been humans.
We have been doing a looot of things for a long time. Procreation without consent for example used to be a big staple in our development and yet we have ceased to find that acceptable, fortunately. Weather or not we have done something for a long time has no bearing on it beeing a good thing or not.
Will nobody think of the profits?? The sweet sweet short-term profits of somebody else?
/s
yea if you are satisfied having like a pair of shoes or two at most I think it would be fine. But if you want to renew your wardrobe completely every year, then the problem is elsewhere.
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