chapotraphouse
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Slop posts go in c/slop. Don't post low-hanging fruit here.
My general rule is if I don’t feel like I could hand them a gun if something popped off then the question really answers itself.
I feel like this is just how it goes as a symptom of the inescapable perpetuation of oppressive ideology within our society.
I only ever really feel safe around poc, socialist, queer non-men. I feel a natural kindred and love for everybody and especially the people of these categories but I also tend to notice when somebody is for instance a queer poc non man that is not a socialist and also a socialist poc who is not a queer or non man etc.
It's the sad reality of the nature of ideology within a capitalist society that every single person will internalize the hegemonic discourses, and as we all know oppressed people will oftentimes even internalize the discourses about themselves.
It's not an unwarranted assumption either as experience may prove, but we should and (clearly you do) still struggle to find unity with all who can be united!
If it was easy to overcome the hegemony of a society we wouldn't need to be revolutionaries in the first place, and none of us are free from brain worms. Freedom is a constant struggle etc
Your experiences and opinions are completely justified. I'm white, and white people have a shit ton of unlearning to do by default, as others have mentioned. I'd like to believe that a lot of white leftists genuinely support and believe in progressive, socialist, or communist beliefs/movements, but it takes a lot of work to shift from always viewing everything from a white lens.
I'll admit that I was a bit of a shithead until about 7 years ago when I got introduced to new ideas and began to truly listen to other people's experiences. When you're growing up in a primarily white suburban bubble, that kind of curbs social development if there isn't a lot of exposure to other peoples' and cultures experiences.
Granted, it is a very common phenomenon that white leftists put on the air of revolutionary thought & rhetoric, but they're still more white than leftist. A lot of these folks never grow beyond just saying the right things, and the mask can slip off and they'll show their ass. That does make it difficult to sus out whether a white person is genuine or not, and I've run into it plenty of times myself.
I don't know how else to say this but if this is real you sound like such a weird person, do you actually get anything done in the organization where you practice this or do you only organize (and talk) with people who don't pass as white?
When I first met my housemate she called herself a communist and has been doing everything to prove that she is just an awful radlib since then
I don't think it's so weird or unusual to be at least a bit distrustful of the people that benefit the most from a country built off racism and colonialism. Fwiw I'm white, so I don't think it's my place to say more than that, but I have similar feelings to cishet allies who have shown their ass over the years. Of course it's not 1:1, but I feel like you can only be let down so many times before there's an asterisk next to ally* that doesn't go away for a while.
That’s how I feel with self-proclaimed leftists in NATO countries. It’s almost always a radlib who wants to be politically daring. Online they’re mostly cool though. Most of the saner Marxist-Leninists from those countries are mostly found online.
That's fair, talk is cheap
Idk I try not to view people so suspiciously unless they've given me reason to. It's worked out alright so far.
like in an org or online? Also, do you find someone who is more bold in their stance i.e. outright identifies whether they are a marxist or anarchist to be more trustworthy?
Compared to libshits who say stuff like "I'm a socialist!" when they actually mean they want Bernie Sanders type social democracy, it does open the door a little, but I know that they could still be very much prone to hard-to-excuse shortcomings. There are also people who identify with labels like "Marxist", "anarchist", or "communist" without a lot of conviction, believe it or not. They might bring it up if they are asked about it, but they'll never mention it in their life beyond that point, at least not enough to really understand why their whiteness could make them unaware of the holes they may have in how they view the matters of things like oppression and racial activism.
There are also people who identify with labels like “Marxist”, “anarchist”, or “communist” without a lot of conviction, believe it or not
of course, didn't mean to imply otherwise sorry. i dont think there's anything "wrong" with it, it's quite rational to not trust white people (i am white, tbc), in that as you've said growing up as a white person can blind you to a lot, and if (pulling number out of my ass) 50+% of white leftists have this problem it would make less sense to not have some guard up. However, I do think it can be a mistake to go too far the other way and overtly trust someone for being a POC (not saying you are!), there are plenty of informants, compradors, etc, and even beyond that being genuine doesnt prevent someone from being completely misguided anyways. hopefully im making sense
Ultimately, I view this as a failing of american orgs in not properly combating white supremacist tendencies in their membership.
optimal strategy
i mean it doesn't make them less trustworthy than the average white person
The only white people i trust are David Gilbert, Judy Clark, and the United Freedom Front people.
I’ve also met plenty of opportunistic and full of shit non-white activists. Just FYI. don’t get conned.
But your instincts are correct. Most white people are not to be trusted to varying degrees.
I've congregated with white self proclaimed leftist/socialists who are aware of their "privilege" but still have weird views about "bad" neighbors that borderlines into fear. How white people talk about crime or "bad" areas is my litmus test.
Because you damn well should distrust fucking crackers