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submitted 8 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
  • Putin has relied on historical borders to argue that Ukraine is part of Russia, justifying the war.
  • Mongolia's former president shared a map of the Mongol Empire, which included parts of Russia.
  • "After Putin's talk. I found Mongolian historic map. Don't worry. We are a peaceful and free nation," he wrote.

The former president of Mongolia mocked Russian President Vladimir Putin over the weekend and his focus on history to try to justify his invasion of Ukraine.

Putin has frequently used historical borders to justify his brutal invasion, arguing that Russia has a claim over Ukraine even though Ukraine is an independent country.

In his interview with Tucker Carlson last week, Putin outlined centuries of Russian and European history to justify his invasion. Historians say much of the history he gave doesn't stand up.

Tsakhia Elbegdorj, who was Mongolia's president between 2009 and 2017, and was also its prime minister, poked fun at Putin's argument on X.

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[-] paddirn@lemmy.world 200 points 8 months ago
[-] Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

The Golden Hord will rise again

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[-] p1mrx@sh.itjust.works 119 points 8 months ago
[-] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The Mongolia Empire had way more land than this in its prime. In the late 1200, Mongolian Empire spans from Siberia to southeast Asia, and all the way to east Europe.

It is just Russia didn't exists back then. 1471 is near the downfall of the Mongolian Empire and it is still huge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire

[-] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Did Mongolia also not burn/sack Moscow several times for failure to pay taxes. Aka like Trump said he would be fine with Russia doing to NATO countries?

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[-] Chainweasel@lemmy.world 97 points 8 months ago

Just go take it back, Russia is so wrapped up in the western front they wouldn't be able to mount any kind of defense until it was far too late to hold Siberia.

[-] bedrooms@kbin.social 35 points 8 months ago

Too bad democracy won't invade like Putin does because peace is the right thing to do.

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[-] Deceptichum@kbin.social 14 points 8 months ago

Wait for …. The Mongols!

[-] morrowind@lemmy.ml 10 points 8 months ago

If Mongolia is able to muster anything like the force they had when they invaded, it will hardly matter what Russia can mount

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[-] rebul@kbin.social 76 points 8 months ago

The UK has decided that they have historical claims to the US, so they will begin their invasion soon.

[-] alquicksilver@lemmy.world 95 points 8 months ago

You bringing socialized health care?

I've left the back door unlocked.

[-] Maultasche@lemmy.world 31 points 8 months ago
[-] skulblaka@startrek.website 57 points 8 months ago

Honestly, still beats dying of preventable disease because of fear of the bill afterward. At least this way I can die of a preventable disease due to patient backlog.

[-] timmy_dean_sausage@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

Why not both! I spent almost 8 months mostly bedridden last year waiting for a magical American doctor to fix me. Even got kidney disease from all the pain killers/anti-inflammatory meds I had to be on to somewhat function. Now I'm in my 30's with the blood pressure of someone in their 70's. Best Healthcare system in the world!

[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Dad says we have patient backlogs at home

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[-] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 31 points 8 months ago

NHS is just suffering from decades of destruction at the hand of the UK's version of US Republicans. They want it destroyed and continue to whittle away at to make perceptions such as this the norm, until they can fully destroy it.

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

Definitely. They sabotage it and whine about how inefficient it is, right? Eventually they move to privatize it so rich bastards can get richer. At least that's been the playbook here in the US for Medicare and USPS.

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[-] VampyreOfNazareth@lemm.ee 13 points 8 months ago

NHS is better than $20000 band aids.

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago
[-] shalafi@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended.

[-] vinylshrapnel@lemmynsfw.com 12 points 8 months ago
[-] tal@lemmy.today 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The map they used in the linked article as the largest empire to ever exist was actually of the later British Empire, which doesn't include what is the present-day US (though it was larger than the British Empire at the time that it included some of the present-day US).

It'd be interesting to create composite maps of empires that included all the territory that they ever controlled, rather than the peak that they controlled at any one time. I think you'd need to do some work in R, and that the Brits would probably still come out on top.

As I have pointed out before, Russia also historically controlled part of what is now the US:

https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-vyacheslav-volodin-warns-us-russia-reclaim-alaska-1722342

Oleg Matveychev, a member of the Duma, told Russian state television earlier this year that Russia should seek the "return of all Russian properties, those of the Russian empire, the Soviet Union and current Russia, which has been seized in the United States, and so on."

When asked if that included Alaska, Matveychev responded that it did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_North_America

From 1732 to 1867, the Russian Empire laid claim to northern Pacific Coast territories in the Americas. Russian colonial possessions in the Americas are collectively known as Russian America ((Russian: Русская Америка, romanized: Russkaya Amerika); 1799 to 1867). It consisted mostly of present-day Alaska in the United States, but also included the outpost of Fort Ross in California, and three forts in Hawaii, including Russian Fort Elizabeth. Russian Creole settlements were concentrated in Alaska, including the capital, New Archangel (Novo-Arkhangelsk), which is now Sitka.

Fort Ross in California has been preserved as both an American and Californian historic landmark, and you can go visit it; Russian Orthodox services are held there a couple times a year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross,_California

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[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago
[-] jpreston2005@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago
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[-] pwalshj@lemmy.world 76 points 8 months ago
[-] Wytch@lemmy.zip 61 points 8 months ago

To be expected, given his ancestry

[-] BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world 29 points 8 months ago

We've all got a little Genghis in us.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 14 points 8 months ago

If not, it can be arranged.

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[-] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 74 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Greece is getting ready to expand too, and solving the Israel / Palestine issues at the same time

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

The Abbasids and the Umayyads put Alexander to shame.

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[-] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 60 points 8 months ago

The BS of historical borders should be brought up more.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 51 points 8 months ago

Also, Russia was founded by Vikings, so I hope Norway is ready to invade.

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[-] x0chi@lemmy.world 37 points 8 months ago

Hey Portugal and Spain, according to the treaty of Tordesilhas together, Portugal and Spain had conquering rights for half the world. And the pope signed it..

And Romans... You had a great empire. So did the Mouros (Arabs) Etc..

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[-] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world 37 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I’ve been waiting for this. So glad they actually did it.

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago
[-] Snowpix@lemmy.ca 12 points 8 months ago

DAMN YOU MONGORIANS! ALWAYS BREAKING MY CITY WALL!

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[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Don't worry. We are a peaceful and free nation

...until someone messes with a Mongolian trade delegation.

[-] drathvedro@lemm.ee 25 points 8 months ago

Good joke, but it's bold on him to poke fun at one of the only two neighbors Mongolia has, while the other dreams of invading it.

[-] kellyaster@kbin.social 20 points 8 months ago

Lol that's some Mongolian beef?

[-] joyjoy@lemm.ee 18 points 8 months ago

I would like to see this map.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 45 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I have Privacy Badger so I didn't look at the Xitter post, here's a map I found from the Wikipedia page

[-] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 37 points 8 months ago

"parts of Russia" is really underselling it.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 14 points 8 months ago

Would have been "all" if Ogedei hadn't caught a severe case of drinking himself to death.

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[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 10 points 8 months ago

Yeah. First of all, there wasn't really a "Russia" at the time. Vikings invaded the European mainland and controlled some settlements like Novogrod. They eventually made it down to Kiev, and for a while there was the "Kievan Rus" state with its capital in Kiev. That was destroyed when the Mongols sacked and completely obliterated Kiev.

In December 1237, Moscow was sacked by the Mongols, and many / most (?) of the civilians were either enslaved or killed. The Ukraine area was important because the Ukrainian lands were so fertile, but Moscow wasn't, so it retained some independence. Moscow was under the thumb of the Mongols to such an extent that they acted as tax collectors for the Horde, and when town officials resisted the tax collection on behalf of the mongols, Alexander Nevsky (Prince of Novgorod, Grand Prince of Kiev, etc.) had their noses cut off. The Russians only stopped paying off the Mongols in 1476.

Eventually the Mongol force faded due to infighting, and one of the forces pushing them out was based out of Moscow. But, again, this isn't because Moscow was important and powerful. It's because Moscow was at the very edge of their territory, and wasn't a strategically important place the plains of Ukraine.

Putin's whole "Ukraine has always been part of Russia" is backwards. "Russia" was originally part of the Kievan Rus, based out of Kiev. Eventually, after the chaos following the Mongols, Ukraine was fought over by various empires, but it wasn't until the 1800s that most of the territory now considered to be Ukraine was in Russian hands.

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[-] Vilian@lemmy.ca 15 points 8 months ago
[-] Deceptichum@kbin.social 34 points 8 months ago

Is your Lemmy texting about Mongolia?

LMAO = Let Mongols Annex Oblast

[-] JustMy2c@lemm.ee 13 points 8 months ago

ROFLOL

(Russians Out For Land, Our Land!)

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this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
992 points (98.3% liked)

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