For anything like this you need to be getting quotes from multiple people. This person is trying to upsell you more than help you.
this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2026
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Or giving a "fuck off" quote to basically make it worth their while.
yeah we're definitely doing that. They ended up quoting 17k, which might be alright since someone else said they got their AC/furnace put in for 14k with no ductwork.
I liked the guy talking to him but i will say this, he replaced the P trap with another incorrect P trap (but Idk if my partner told him it needs a 5" drop and a 3" rise on the outlet side, I thought they did but I wasn't there for that). But also he did that for free so idk
Yes a new AC should cost that much but it sounds like you need someone who is willing to just service the old one and fix the ducts which should be enough and cost considerably less
Yeah that might be the case. It's just kinda hard to tell when I have no professional experience with HVAC stuff. It's kind of the same situation as with my car, where something chewed through the harness for the O2 sensor and the mechanic said I needed to take it to the dealership, it's like, it might be affordable to fix but what if it's old enough that something else will go wrong and we're just dumping money when it'd make more financial sense to just replace it? But I know that fear of that exact thing is used to pressure people into sales.
I think for now we're just going to shop for quotes and see other others say, and yeah, maybe we can just get the return duct fixed and then play wait and see with the actual HVAC system
Yeah that's a tough situation. Ideally you can find someone trustworthy who knows a good HVAC person or just get enough quotes to start to get an idea of how it is. Good luck
For real. My folks recently had to get some plumbing work done. First company called quoted them at 30 grand. The next 4 quoted them for like 12.
The other day I had to get a garbage disposal fixed, everyone was trying to sell me a new one for 800-1200 and one guy fixed it instantly and tried to do it for free since it was an easy fix. Finding the right person can be a huge difference
supposedly an "undersized return" is super common in amateur jobs, but there are sites online where you can get formula estimates of what it is supposed to be based on some calculation for your ducting. HVAC, particularly the A/C side is wild to me as a trade skill. i tried to figure it out once when contemplating having central A/C installed and there's a lot to understand. it sounds like the diagnosis from this guy is that all the expensive parts of it are eff'd. 16k sounds at the high-end to me for all that, but i will say the advancements in heatpump tech and energy efficiency is pretty crazy. probably this administration killed the rebates, but if you have anything done keep your receipts because there were federal tax rebates on upgrade/repairs that improve efficiency for several years.
others have suggested what i've heard referred to as "mini-splits", which are kind of an incredible technology in the cooling world. they are like slimmed down and versatile window units that don't block windows. SOME states will cover the costs of an home energy audit where some guy employed by a community non-profit comes over and talks about your situation without any incentive to sell you shit. that can be illuminating if you feel like the quote you got was sus or to talk through the logic of where to locate minisplits. they can also all be integrated to control from a single location / with a remote.
also, unless your ducting is really jank city, i would raise my eyebrows about them wanting to replace all of it. that seems fucked up to me. like if it's in the wrong place, they could relocate it. if it has holes, they can be patched. but really... toss it all and do new? weird.
the rule of thumb i go by for stuff like this is to get at least 3 quotes. and i would ask everybody at your work who owns their home (or tell them to ask their parents/family or whatever) if they can recommend an HVAC guy. word of mouth is gold imo. also sometimes you get the inverse and someone tells you who to avoid at all costs. super valuable info.
also, i have sat through pitches were some high pressure bozo articulates a quote to my parents/sibling for a significant job and they came back to me wanting $24k for a job ($12k panel upgrade + $28k heating system) that i eventually got handled by two separate companies for $3k panel upgrade + $14k heating system and did a fucking great work, educated me on shit, and found ways to save me money by coordinating and re-using available materials, so they came DOWN on the original quote. the first company (crooks) we found online and it took all my effort not to laugh in their face and tell them to get out before i stop laughing. the two that were awesome i found through colleagues and name dropped them as the referral. there are absolutely contractors out there that are just fleecing everybody who will give them the time of day, even in this economy.
finding contractors that are trustworthy and not trying to rob you is a nightmare. my advice is to build up a list of people who do different shit (plumber, exteriors, roofing, general, HVAC, electric) through anyone you feel comfortable interacting with. i asked everybody whose name i knew at work for recs. chuds, weirdos, anybody who would let me ask. the good people are usually booked out, so its best to be proactive and get those quotes until you find one you can live with from someone you trust, so you can get on their schedule before shit's damaging your quality of life. also, if they do good shit pay 'em fast and (if you can) ask if you can get a discount for paying by check. a lot of them take card but it goes through one of those payment processors that takes like 3% on the top. at those high numbers, that's some real scratch.
it sounds like the diagnosis from this guy is that all the expensive parts of it are eff'd.
my current interpretation is that it's just that the ductwork is all fucked (the gaps in various bits of bolted on sheet metal, plus the return) and that that's just generally not good for the various components of it, so there's just a greatly increased chance of Something Going Wrong because of it
also, unless your ducting is really jank city, i would raise my eyebrows about them wanting to replace all of it.
It really does seem really janky. He showed us a bunch of pictures but I don't have access to them at the moment. If we can get them sent to us (or if I can be brave enough to go into the spiderhole known as the crawl space) I'll post them.
But yeah it might be possible to tape over all the gaps and then maybe just pay for a larger return duct. I dunno.
The guy seemed alright but along the lines of what you're saying here, he said the company wouldn't give us anything for the old gaspack unit? Which seems weird, since he also said we "could probably list it on Facebook marketplace for 2-3k and sell it in a day"
I think right now we're just going to collect quotes on how much it would cost to do all this and then uhhh I guess let it ride until there's a more serious issue with the actual gaspack unit, since it's still working, cooling, etc.
Not sure if I’m missing something, but the biggest “going wrong” would be a total loss of the AC unit right? So instead of hedging risk and upgrading it, couldn’t you try a quick fix and see what happens? I bet some contractor could do it for way, way less, like a day of work + supplies and a new return duct. Spend a lot less now and realistically I bet you could get a few more years out of it. I’m not an expert by any means, but this is what I’d do if I didn’t have the cash lying around for a full upgrade. It’s basically a matter of risking ~$2k to maybe need a full replacement anyways, or paying the full cost up front. I’d get a second opinion and push them to say the actual likelihood of a failure with the patch job.
10 years old isn't that old for an AC unit. You have 3 moving parts in an AC your compresser and your 2 fans, one inside and one outside. If those 3 things are working and your copper isn't leaking refrigerant there's really no need to be replacing the whole thing, those crooks are just trying to take advantage of the fact not many people understand how AC units work.
I'm not sure what you mean by circular plates but ducts can be sealed with duct tape, even after they have been installed. If it's a flexible duct it will have an "inner duct" under the insulation and then the outer barrier duct on top of the insulation. Both of those need to be individually tapped up, meaning peel back the insulation tape up the inside duct, put the insulation back and tape up the outer barrier. If your have hard ducting that's just metal with no flexibility then you just need to tape up the metal under the insulation.
If your return ducting is a flex duct installed into plenum board on your unit, it shouldn't be to hard to remove the old one and add a larger duct to allow proper air flow, depending on the location of the unit. Plenum board is just rigid fiberglass and can be cut larger to accommodate a bigger duct.
What do you mean by you've seen it drain? Most condensation pans I've installed have had 2 drains; the lower primary drain that goes straight into your plumbing where it wouldn't be visible, and the secondary drain that will drain somewhere visible as an indicator that your primary drain is clogged.
I'm not sure what you mean by circular plates but ducts can be sealed with duct tape,
Like it looked like regular ductwork but then on the rectangular ducts there were various circular sheet metal plates screwed in (with big gaps in the edges). My partner said they're going to ask if they can send the pictures that they took and if they do I'll post them.
We'll keep in mind what you've said about replacing the return duct because if that is the main thing that's causing issues I figure that can be replaced, all the gaps taped over, and then we just play wait and see on if any components on the actual gas pack go bad
What do you mean by you've seen it drain?
So before all this I was trying to figure out why it's so fucking humid in our house even with a dehumidifer running 24/7, and part of it is the humidity rising when the A/C is running. My big fear was the ductwork (lol) but google LLM nonsense also mentioned the p-trap on the condensation line, if it's improperly installed, because the gaspack creates negative pressure inside
So here's the drain line
Here's the installation manual for the goodman gaspack
And, anyway, I've seen it actively drain out of that condensation line, like, drip drip drip drip drip, but the guy said it wasn't draining at all due to the negative pressure inside the cabinet
but like, I've seen it drip, while it was running? the negative pressure is happening though because I can feel it sucking in air
Anyway, that's the only thing he said to me that made no sense, when he said it wasn't draining AT ALL. But idk I didn't look inside the thing when he had it open so idk how much water was backed up into it
Either way, and this is one of the only things making me suspicious of this guy's skill/salesmanning us, is he replaced the p-trap for free... but it still isn't right. It has the right drop but it doesn't have the specified 3" rise on the outlet side
but like, the p-trap sounds like a really minor issue compared to the gaps in the ductwork and whatnot
various circular sheet metal plates screwed in (with big gaps in the edges).
Ok sounds like a patch job removing a branch line. If those circles aren't sealed well you can get some duct tape and duct sealant and make it air tight. You wana get the tape that has a layer of sealant already applied and you need to peel a layer of paper off of it to reveal the sticky sealant. We called it silver tape when I was installing but the actual name is escaping me.
It looks to me like that metal pipe is your primary drain as it's a bit lower than your pvc drain. If water is coming out of the pvc drain that's because the condensation pan is full of water up to the bottom of the pvc drain. Put your hand on the pvc drain when the ac is running and you should probably feel a slight suction, which would indicate that your AC guy was not wrong about the drain sticking air. The dripping will still happen because the outside air is releasing the pressure differential between the suction chamber and the outside of the unit but water can still make its way out with air rushing in, think of pouring water out of a two liter bottle that still drains while air displaces the empty space.
If you have a metal plenum then expanding your return duct with something bigger will be a little more involved but still doable.
Ok sounds like a patch job removing a branch line. If those circles aren't sealed well you can get some duct tape and duct sealant and make it air tight. You wana get the tape that has a layer of sealant already applied and you need to peel a layer of paper off of it to reveal the sticky sealant. We called it silver tape when I was installing but the actual name is escaping me.
This would probably be a good idea before paying to replace everything. I'm gonna be real though I am not a crawlspace guy. Maybe if it was all clean and encapsulated.... but even though the HVAC guy said it's relatively nice down there i'm still like, no way. Maybe if my partner gets me a hazmat suit and i'm all taped up. I just think I'd get a spider in my clothes and panic and somehow die down there. Very reasonable fear
It looks to me like that metal pipe is your primary drain as it's a bit lower than your pvc drain. If water is coming out of the pvc drain that's because the condensation pan is full of water up to the bottom of the pvc drain. Put your hand on the pvc drain when the ac is running and you should probably feel a slight suction, which would indicate that your AC guy was not wrong about the drain sticking air.
I think the metal line with the worrying amounts of rust is actually the gas line. It's a packaged gas unit so it has electric A/C and a natural gas furnace in the same unit. The PVC should be the main condensation drain line.
It was definitely sucking air through it. The HVAC guy didn't mention that though, that was from the google LLM telling me hopeful lies that the improper P trap could be causing the humidity increase we see when the A/C runs. I was really hoping it was that and not duct issues.
The P trap is still a source of confusion for me though because the HVAC guy said it wasn't draining AT ALL but I noticed a steady trickle (at about the same rate our 50pt dehumidifier produces) before the guy came out.
Also he replaced the P trap but as far as I can tell it still hasn't right, based on the installation manual. The image I sent you was the OLD drain. He said it actually wasn't a trap at all but something else, I forget what he called it though, a continuous drain or something. It looked like a P trap but with only enough depth for like a 1" water seal. But the manual is really clear it needs a trap with a 5" drop and 3" rise on the outlet side or else it won't have enough water to seal against the negative pressure inside the unit.
He changed it but it's got like a 5" drop and then maybe 1.5-2" rise on the outlet side? it's def not right
It's kind of not enough of a fuckup to make me question the guy's whole deal, but it's still kind of annoying because... it's not right, it ain't what the manual says it needs!
that's easy to fix if i get some more pipe but it just kinda feels like a very small issue r/n compared to the duct work, even if it is sucking back in water. I should probably still fix it though.
I'm sure a happy HVAC salesman will go over such details with you (very gleefully), but it's probable that the company has a deal with some bank that will let you establish a line of credit (it's effectively just a credit card) and offer you like "0% interest if paid in 36 months" or perhaps 48 months. Something like that. Of course there's the usual caveats of "if you don't pay it in that 36 month period they shove the pending interest directly up your ass at like 17%." It's great if you know you will be able to pay it under the time limit.
I don't know if they already discussed this or not, and there's other ways to solve such issues of course, but just thought I'd throw it out there. I know many people are "credit-averse" or whatever, but it's just sort of the way things are and 🤷♂️ might as well use the tools if they're lying about.
I had to get a new system ~4 years ago too. If that $16K quote includes "everything" that's probably not a bad figure. I didn't need new ductwork. I got a new A/C unit and the furnace installed (natural gas lines are run in my city. I didn't know about heat pumps either until right after I got it installed. Bit of a forced rush decision since my unit was lifeless and it was already late May) for I think like $14K though I can't remember exactly. It was a bit more expensive than it could've been because I purposely got a more expensive unit that runs pretty much silently. Compared to the older units, 10+ years or so, that you can hear the hard kick of the compressor and then the outdoor unit's fan running... this one is totally silent and way more efficient. I think the least expensive option was like $9K. If I add ductwork and adjust for 4 years of pretty bad inflation I guess that comes out to about the same.
I remember being in your situation though and I dread the thought of it again. My sympathies on that front
Unless your ducts contain a bunch of weird bends and valves and whatever then the ductwork is probably completely fine except for the return duct, and you can add a second one or expand the existing one for a lot less than sixteen thou. Sounds like they're trying to sell you on a heat pump system, which is indeed an excellent technology so long as you use something else for heating.
the ductwork is probably completely fine except for the return duct
He did show me a bunch of pictures of ducts with metal plates screwed on with huge gaps so I think there are actually numerous issues with the duct work. that could all maybe just be covered with tape, though. The return duct seems like a bigger issue since it's causing the pressure drop that's causing the ducts to bang
I guess the thing to do right now is just wait and see on the actual A/C unit (and hope it doesn't shit out in the winter, it's a packaged gas unit that does the heat too) and maybe try to get the ductwork replaced when we can (since regardless of the A/C system all the gaps and stuff are going to be increasing energy bills)
A bucket of mastic and a couple of big shitty paint brushes solves any gaps
Get you some of that aluminum tape and the ducts will be fine
You could always say fuck it and get some window units, they work great and cost a fraction of the price, it's what one of my parents did when their AC shit the bed. I assume you own the house and if you're handy you could cut holes in the siding and mount them that way instead of sacrificing windows. Depending on the sq footage of the place you could maybe drop 2-3k and not miss central AC, probably cut down on your electric bill a lot too if you spend most of your time in certain rooms.
They make ductless units now that essentially function like window units but are more sleek and meant to be "permanent" (however long they last). They're fairly inexpensive and many of those units now days are highly efficient as you mentioned. You can even get multiples and tie them together (I think there's some proprietary thermostat unit or something) to act like a central unit. I've never used them, but I did look into them years back when I was faced with the same decision. I was extremely tempted to go that route. I was gonna use three in my upstairs area and the basement solves itself (it stays reasonable even when the temp outside is horrible). Maybe next time.
Not bad advice thank you <3
Why replace everything? Are those not mix and match parts? Also 10 years doesn't seem old for an A/C unit at all
I didn't look inside the gaspack while he was here (not that i could tell much even if i did) but he showed a picture of the coils and they're fuckin filthy and he said the condensation drain wasn't draining at all (confusing me because i mean i saw it drain but idk. He seemed knowledgeable about everything) and I assume it's not in great condition if it's been running for 10 years with fucked up vents that are too small + letting in contaminants + not draining properly. I think it's just a situation of if something breaks it won't be worth the cost to fix it.
And if we just replace the gaspack system and leave the vents fucked up it'll just continue having problems with pressure causing the ducts to pop, sucking in humid crawlspace air, etc, shortening the lifespan of a new unit
Which isn't critical, like, we don't need to do anything NOW, but the impression i got from the guy was he wouldn't be surprised if something goes wrong with it soon with how it's set up
good news though i thought the crawl space would be a wet bug filled hell but i guess it's pretty dry down there even though it's raining
Did you give him the secret Stonecutter handshake?
If the place isn't that big you might be able to get away with 2 mini splits and that's cheaper than a full set of ductwork. But it'll only directly cool one room per split.
I mentioned that to my partner as an option. It's kind of a big house with a sprawling layout (not a mansion over here just an old af house the previous owners made additions to) but we do spend most of our time either in the bedroom or our computer room playing games so it could work
It can work with a few more rooms if you keep doors open and set up some fans.
I mean my friend's family used to cool a multi-room house with one living room window unit and two fans. If it's multi-story make sure one is upstairs, cool air sinks. Also ceiling fans are extremely effective when combined with AC or a heater, pretty inexpensive, not that hard to install (but still have someone else do it unless you're very experienced with electrical work).
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
yeah and it still works so I mean, it's fine for now, my interpretation is just all the gaps in the ductwork are introducing humidity (it's 50% or above with the A/C running, and that's only because of a dehumidifer working as well) and unconditioned air, increasing energy costs long term, and the issues with the sizing of the return ductwork (especially over its lifespan) means it's not in as good condition as it should be at 10 years old (so it might, but not necessarily will, break soon)
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