this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2026
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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All shows used to be like that (media.piefed.world)
submitted 14 hours ago by negativenull@piefed.world to c/tenforward@lemmy.world
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[–] thedirtyknapkin@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Well yeah, they could crank out a whole episode in like a day back then. These days people expect every episode to have the quality of Hollywood movie.

The nature of tv has changed. The gap between tv and movie has largely closed. People lament that we are moving away from traditional Hollywood movies, but I'd argue that we're more moving away from traditional television with premium tv now taking the place of movies in many ways.

It's not that people like stories less, they just seem to prefer a series of 1 hour movies told in 8 parts over a single 90 minute plotline.

Television used to be sooooo much different than Hollywood. There used to be almost no overlap in skills or technique. I used to work in TV, and what I used to do just isn't done anymore. The closest thing out there now to old tv is Saturday night live. They still kinda do it in that style.

[–] Teal@lemmy.zip 4 points 6 hours ago

A 16 episode season would be a nice compromise for a more detailed story and character development while not being much longer for those who bury their faces in phones or other devices and can’t be bothered to listen to more than 8-10 episodes. 👀 /s

A little extra breathing room compared to what’s common now would be great.

[–] SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev 3 points 5 hours ago

That's 24 with Christmas and Halloween specials. Or a clip show, ugh.

[–] jobbies@lemmy.zip 13 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure it was less than a year between seasons too.

None of this wait 2-3 years and wonder if its actually been cancelled.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 3 points 7 hours ago

They would take a break equal to public schools being let out for the summer, at the same time schools let out for summer. They have much longer breaks now due to the writer's union fighting to get longer seasonal breaks, as well as adding mid-season breaks.

[–] Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 7 hours ago

A discussion yesterday about netflix shows dropping 50% of their audience between season 1 and 2 was talking about this. Shows used to run 9 months and have 22 - 26 shows in that time. Then there'd be a 3 month hiatus before you got another 22+ episodes. A streaming show would take 7 season to get to 50 episodes, and with a year or more between 8 episode chunks it takes 15 years to get there.

I don't miss filler episodes or saving the budget for sweeps, but I miss shows I love constantly producing new content.

[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 1 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, but actors and film crews who worked those syndicated TV shows will tell you how tortorous the work schedules were. Labor protections are a big part of the changes in episode production, and it's a good thing.

[–] Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world 28 points 14 hours ago (6 children)

TBH I don't mind if a modern season is 12 or so episodes, so long as those episodes are rock solid! One downside to 22-24 episode seasons is they obviously phone in a couple episodes, have some filler including the ever-dreaded clip-show.

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 23 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

That's what I miss, some of the filler episodes would give so much more depth to the world and characters.

Every Ferengi episode in Ds9 was a treasure

[–] FrChazzz@lemmus.org 6 points 5 hours ago

All hail the bottle episodes!

Just think, due to budget distribution, we got "Family" right after "Best of Both Worlds, pt. 2" and it's among the best Picard-centric episodes (and provided thematic ground for Generations, First Contact, and Picard--for good and not-so-good)!

[–] UnpledgedCatnapTipper@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 7 hours ago

Other than "Profit and Lace", I agree with you.

[–] adarza@piefed.ca 19 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (2 children)

i would rather have the 'longer' seasons with relatively consistent schedules and early announcement of cancellation or renewal. ya know, like the 'olden days'. yea. i feel as old as i sound. idc. that's what i want.

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 5 points 12 hours ago

For Strange New Worlds we almost got that, short seasons, but it looks like they only skipped 2024 and were on a very consistent schedule so far. The cancellation/ending of the show was announced last year for I assume next year.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Same, I need shit to have on in the background while I'm playing games or whatever. These 8 episode series just don't cut it. Fortunately the old stuff is replayable and great for that purpose.

[–] adarza@piefed.ca 1 points 2 hours ago

Fortunately the old stuff is replayable and great for that purpose

yup. and i do that, frequently. add directory to vlc, hit random and let 'er go. hours later, maybe get sidetracked by a 'good' episode.. then get sidetracked by the sidetrack and watch three more.

[–] Jesus_666@lemmy.world 11 points 12 hours ago

On the other hand, sometimes episodes written specifically to be take it easy can still be exceptionally good. Duet was a cost-saving exercise and I consider it to be one of the best Trek episodes of all time. A modern show with a movie-tier per-episode budget is not going to have the kind of constraints that caused the writers to focus that intensely on characterization.

[–] Hazel@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 7 hours ago

I don't think that's necessarily true, I always thought 24-26 20-minute episodes was the perfect length for an anime. It's about 8 hours total, same as a movie trilogy, perfect for a longer narrative without filler.

[–] ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world 7 points 12 hours ago

I do mind. Most of the time the modern short season system means, its a long movie or to use buzz words = binge worthy. You must watch every episode and in order. With the old system, you could watch most of the season out of order and skip episodes. The ones that need to be watched, are usually the double or tripple episodes. The old system allows full episodes for side/background characters, developing their story.

Of course there is the budget and with more episodes, it allows for a bigger difference. I don't mind cheaper episodes but I hate a big "previously on" episode, where there is not even character development.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

They also tend to be episodic, with only a few as part of a full narrative.

NuTrek is more like a movie trilogy, with hour long episodes often being part of a series. You get a single overarching plot with minor subplots. And the production value is far more in line with movie production values.

[–] okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I miss the episodic vibe. I feel like the writers have so little wiggle room to do characterization when the characters are committed to a long narrative arc. No rando stand-alone, self-contained stories that edify and deepen. No contemplative presentation of ideas. The only device allowed for this is flashbacks, and generally only when it feels like the character is missing some context to explain their behavior in the current scene. It is the second most depressing aspect of NuTrek with the first being that Trek stopped being about presenting a utopia vision for the future.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

I feel like the writers have so little wiggle room to do characterization when the characters are committed to a long narrative arc. No rando stand-alone, self-contained stories that edify and deepen.

Yeah, I get that. TNG had a lot more room to play with Data's quest for humanity than Picard. Which is ironic, given that Data was about as important as Picard in the second series.

But I also didn't need to watch Beverly Crusher have sex with a ghost. So, trade-offs.

It is the second most depressing aspect of NuTrek with the first being that Trek stopped being about presenting a utopia vision for the future.

I always found the Utopianism of Old Trek overstated. More often than not, it was the Trek crew stumbling on some alien race or society that was experimenting with another Sci-Fi author's idea of Utopianism. And then the Trek crew became the vehicle of Rodenberry's critique of the utopian philosophy.

I do think a lot of the NuTrek writers keyed in on the season long conflicts in DS9 and decided "This is what we need to do going forward". And, as a result, you got these increasingly narrow, black-and-white, action-focused adventures (the post-OS movies were the worst offenders of this trope). The apex of this (for me) was JJ Abrams blowing up Vulcan in his movie adaptation, so he could do Star Wars in Starfleet Uniforms.

But if you go back to the older episodes, I might argue that it was the captains who were Utopian. But the Trek Society was still very militant and authoritarian.

I would actually argue that Seth MacFarlane's Orville did a much better job of painting a utopian intergalactic federation than Rodenberry or his successors ever did. The culmination of the third season really painted the triumph of politics and inter-uh-galacticism over Realpolitik and imperialism.

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 5 points 11 hours ago

But I also didn't need to watch Beverly Crusher have sex with a ghost.

Take it back, next thing I know you'll say the episode dealing with Lt. Broccoli's gooning problem was unnecessary

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Man, putting the entirety of sentient biological life at risk to save the gender identity of one person is not a “triumph over realpolitik” but childish wish fulfillment completely unmoored from any sense of realism.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago

The alliance was what put sentient biological life at risk. The Moclans were incapable of reconciling with the Kaylons and only pushed the entire Planetary Union towards intergalactic war. The question put before the crew was of political alignment, not annihilation.

And it is reflective of modern global politics, wherein liberals surrender to their fascist neighbors to satisfy a hunger for human sacrifice that transgender people only fulfill on a temporary basis. In the end, it is the upstart working class who can be reasoned and negotiated with, while the religious zealots and fascist chauvinists who rush towards galactic annihilation.

[–] pimento64@sopuli.xyz 1 points 10 hours ago

I always found the Utopianism of Old Trek overstated. More often than not, it was the Trek crew stumbling on some alien race or society that was experimenting with another Sci-Fi author's idea of Utopianism. And then the Trek crew became the vehicle of Rodenberry's critique of the utopian philosophy. [...] the Trek Society was still very militant and authoritarian

This is what happens when we fail our students. Inattentiveness combines with poor narrative comprehension and people only take away surface-level impressions to (of the few parts to which they paid attention, the still fewer) parts they retain.

[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 15 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

True.

Today, we're lucky to get half that. Eight is more common.

nO ONe waNtS tO woRK AnYmORE!

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 4 points 13 hours ago

“Why do people keep canceling their subscription?”

Because you only release enough episodes to binge during a weekend.

[–] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 4 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I think it's little more than producers have found the idealized timing to pack in all the melodrama they can and get you to watch all X episodes.

Then have you come back for something else, a "variation on a theme".

The producers simply know how to sucker us in.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 13 hours ago

The producers simply know how to sucker us in.

They know how to sucker investors in, certainly. Idk about the long term health of the medium. People still just binge watch Friends, ffs. So much of the most popular material is behind us.

[–] mercano@lemmy.world 7 points 14 hours ago

The only modern show to approach that was 20 episode Prodigy seasons, but those were 1/2 hour episodes (less without commercials), so it works out to be the same amount of content as a 10 episode Strange New Worlds season.

[–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Same way with anime. They used to be 24-26 and then they invented a new word “cour” (I know, probably not new) for 12-14 episodes and acted like series were always that short.

But what was even more annoying is that for a lot of series after about 2010-2013 they would do one cour and leave you on a cliffhanger to try to entice you to go buy the light novels. They used to be fully self contained arcs and stories with 24 episodes to work with.

[–] capuccino@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

That is the main reason I stopped watch nowadays anime.

[–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 1 points 10 hours ago

I will say, after about ‘24 it started getting better and back to self contained arcs with no large cliffhangers.

[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

More than a few low quality episodes, a couple flashback episodes, and extensive repetition before commercial breaks. It wasn’t good TV.

[–] deltapi@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

Clip show episodes worked then because DVRs and on-demand streaming wasn't a thing.
I remember getting super excited when my parents got a VCR with a timed record function so that we could record shows and watch them on our own schedule.

[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

plus some excellent bottles episodes to compensate the budget

[–] PattyMcB@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Yeah, but even "hour-long" episodes were only half that with the commercials excluded

[–] SippyCup@lemmy.world 16 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

42 minutes.

[–] adarza@piefed.ca 7 points 13 hours ago

tos was 50 minutes. cable networks tried to speed it up or edit it so they could cram more commercials in to the actual hour-long timeslot.. then they tried stretching episodes (promoted as 'uncut' original) out to 90 minutes. 40 minutes of commercials for 50 minutes of program.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

~~TNG was 52 minutes if i recall. they've been editing them for syndication down to 42 tho, you're right~~ just checked and the one i'm on is 45. Why do i remember something being 52 minutes?

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

DS9, Voyager, and TNG all have episode lengths of approximately 45 minutes without commercials.

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 5 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Ah but have you considered that a minute of commercials lasts three times longer than a minute of Star Trek?

[–] redhorsejacket@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

Tbh, it feels longer than that. A dozen times. Maybe even a hundred. It's impossible to tell.

[–] thessnake03@lemmy.world 6 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

More like 3/4

[–] Australis13@fedia.io 5 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Here in PAL world, I think most of TNG, DS9 and the first 4? seasons of VOY clocked in around 44 minutes without commericals. It then dropped to 42 minutes through the remainder of VOY and all of ENT.

By the 2010s most US procedurals (e.g. NCIS and its spinoffs, Elementary, etc.) were averaging 39 minutes per episode.

In the 2010s, one of our free-to-air stations started butchering shows that had longer runtimes (e.g. Seven Wonders of the Industrial World, early Murder, She Wrote episodes), cutting them from their normal 45 to 47 minute duration down to 40-42 minutes to fit the expected amount of advertising for a one-hour timeslot.

[–] rbos@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 hours ago

We're watching 'Murder, She Wrote' now, and they feel really tightly written. There's not a lot of filler and they end faster than i expect. Cutting 5 minutes out of those just would not work.

[–] StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

No wonder the older shows in general seem to tell a better story. They were telling MORE story

[–] Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

They had time to tell a full story

[–] StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Its one if the greatest failings of modern scifi. It uses cgi and effects as a crutch for story telling. We have some exceptions to the rules of course, but in general they move fast and skip story beats or discussion.

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