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cross-posted from: https://aussie.zone/post/34370513
Anon likes bikes
Not only are bikes one of the most efficient forms of transport, they might be the most efficient form of powered locomotion, period. A human being on a bicycle is far more efficient than anything in nature.
ETA: Unless you consider e-bikes a separate category, since they (can) add regenerative braking on top of everything else.
Yes, actually:
(Besides a 'velomobile', anyway ... which is basically just a bicycle with bodywork for better aerodynamics.)
Death sentence to whoever chose to animate a fake scatter plot over this thing. And yeah velomobiles are just speed-optimized bicycles.
Finally a graph that dares to compare cows and jet fighters!
Probably not the only graph that does so. Both are relevant sources of greenhouse gas emissions as well, so they probably share some graphs on the topic of climate change.
Mice should be ashamed of their inefficiency.
This is so cool. Why do I intuitively expect the efficiency should increase with the Y axis instead through? It feels somewhat upside down?
Velomobile looks like fun but they cost so much. Seems like they are typically custom built and use carbon fibre. So several thousand or more. Meanwhile my bike was like £600.
e-bikes a separate category, since they add regenerative braking on top of everything else.
Actually, the vast majority of e-bikes do not have regenerative braking.
Because on a bike, you don't actually tend to use your brakes very much or very often. And even when you do use the brakes, you're slowing a smaller mass down from a lower speed (compared to cars with regen braking). There's just not much energy there to be harvested from regen braking. Which makes it generally not worth the extra money, weight, and complexity to include a regen braking system.
Interesting, didn't realize.
My wife likes to ride a bike, a lot. The more you get into it, the more expensive it gets. No those bikes and accessories aren't cheap. That thing getting stolen is a serious hit.
Simple general store ones are cheap, dedicated sports store ones are far from cheap.
Bicycles are great force multipliers, but legs are true symbol of freedom of movement. More versatile, almost everyone already have those, already using those is the maintenance required to maintain those.
Though yeah i absolutely can't understand how cars became a symbol of freedom.
Those are literally like a ball and chain around your legs.
The cost of maintenance, car itself and fuel, stress from said fuel price and then getting to sit in a traffic jam overwhelming majority of the time, while trying to memorize huge amount of road rules that many just ignore and which can result in death.
Yeah sure racetrack driving might be nice or going somewhere really remote, but that's so rare as to be a statistical anomaly, overwhelming majority of the time it's basic everyday driving.
As a note about the "symbology of freedom" when it comes to cars it I think comes down to American centric shit again. When I lived in small town USA where there is nothing to do but meth and everyone knows everyone else's business the dream of packing your shit in a backpack and getting into the car and driving 4 hours away feels like freedom. You can go to a city or town and get away from it all.
Now you can do the same in Europe on a train but that won't sell cars so....
You can even see it in American car ads. There are two kinds of cars - the commuter, which focuses on luxury and style, and the "get away from your life" car, the SUVs you stick your camping gear in and go to the middle of nowhere to get away from your shitty life and experience nature in.
Cars are a symbol of freedom because there is no transportation options, so not having one feels like prison
Fair, from that perspective it does make sense.
You can cycle a lot without getting into racing bikes though.
Walking you are going to want shoes. Shoes wear through and actually cost more than a decent regular bike per km.
Underrated point. Someone always brings up the cost of bikes in these threads and it's silly. Sure, some hard core cyclists will put $20k into the hobby, but it's not at all necessary.
I've got maybe $1200 in my total set up, and I could have done it far cheaper if I'd been picky about shopping sales and buying used.
The bike was around $750 new, $80 for an ergonomic saddle (saves on padded shorts, but YMMV), $60 for a helmet that fits well, $100 for pedals with toe clips so I can wear street shoes, and a few accessories here and there.
I put in 30-50 miles a week on average and I've had the bike for better than 2 years with no major mechanical issues. I don't know where that puts me in terms of milage over the average cyclist, but I have a great time and get plenty of exercise without breaking the bank.
Like most any hobby, you can spend as much on it as you like. But the bike coop in your city will probably sell a perfectly-serviceable used commuter to you on a need-based sliding scale all the way down to $20, if not totally free.
As for legs... They're nice, but I've ridden my bicycle 110+ miles in like 8 hours. That's a massive quantitative difference, and a huge impact on quality of life for someone who needs to get around.
The more into get you it, the more expensive it gets. No those bikes and accessories aren’t cheap.
She's 'getting into it' wrong.
My hot take of the day: Unless you're making up for the cost of it by winning money at competitive events, you have no business even thinking about any bike that costs more than $600. And for the vast majority of people, $600 is the luxury option -- a $200 used bike (with a bit of maintenance) will do everything you could ever ask it to.
Sincerely, someone who does most of his commuting on a $20 used bike from the 90's. (It's a great feeling of power, overtaking a $1500 ebike on your $20 steel frame 90's cruiser.)
Everyone's finances are different, your economic guardrails won't necessarily make sense for someone else. I've built plenty of commuters that have rolled out the door of my local coop for < $50 and I put love into every single one of them, every single one of them was (Mostly) solid. But I also have a $3.5K dream build that mostly just hangs on my wall made from vintage new-on-shelf parts, an ode to late-90s / early-00s roadie aesthetics.
And where do you get a modern road or gravel bike for $600 or less? Even used ones are often more expensive.
A nice road bike is a lot of fun and paying $2k for it is similar to buying a gaming pc. No one really needs it but sometimes it's ok to spend money on having fun. And even $5k is not a bad decision if you have the money and value fun more than money. My road bike only cost me 700€ (plus all the additional cost for new tyres, saddle etc) but in the next couple of years I will definetly buy a second one that will be more expensive.
I recently saw a scatter plot somewhere, I believe it was ~~speed vs energy efficiency or something~~ body weight vs cost of transport. And all animals, as well as most modes of transport follow a roughly anti-proportional relationship on a log-scale. ~~If you're fast heavy, you use a lot of energy.~~ If I remember it right, the ~~fastest~~ most efficient animal was the salmon ~~(?)~~. There was one single outlier from that trend, an animal that is much ~~too fast and much~~ too efficient for its weight ~~at the same time~~: Human on a bike.
Edit: Found it: https://slowrevealgraphs.com/2025/12/31/a-human-on-a-bicycle-is-among-the-most-efficient-forms-of-travel/
cars require roads for the most part and that's a socialized freedom boats would be a better symbol of freedom
Answer: freedom without effort is more freedom than freedom with effort. If that difference was small, nobody would put up with all the negative effects of cars
Driving a car is way harder than riding a bike. We don't let kids drive cars. You have to do a test and everything!
I love bikes and 100% support better bike infrastructure but for anything over a few miles it's just not practical to ride a bike for most people. Even if I'm physically capable of riding maybe 80 miles, most people aren't.
If I want to go hiking in the White Mountains in New Hampshire from Boston in Massachusetts I'm not gonna pedal my way there. I'm taking a motorcycle or a car. I'd like to see better public transportation in the form of either trains or busses but realistically I'm not sure that public transportation is viable to such a rural area.
Remember that roads are not naturally-occurring, geological formations. The reason that a car or motorcycle seems practical is that you're not paying the full cost of driving. In fact, nobody is willing to pay that much, which is why American infrastructure is crumbling.
Literal skill issue, is what I'm hearing.
I see plenty people biking multiple km, even elderly people. You just need to bike more.
Also the transmission lasts between 2 years and forever. Probably also depends on how aggressively you use it.
Well, the bicycle I use now is actually somewhat decent unlike the one I had as a child.
Air conditioning.
Air conditioning is why the car is so popular.
It's all kinds of comfort. Comfort to only walk a little when you arrive. Comfort of being "safe" while others are endangered (by you). Comfort of only pushing a pedal with minimal force, instead of propelling yourself. Comfort of having all your shit with you, like a miniture house/oversized backpack. Comfort of keeping a distance to others, being able to hide all you flaws with your carry-on personal space while othering everybody else. Comfort of being sheltered from environment while driving (+ AC), actively worsening the environment.
There have been hot days where friends met me at a bar and asked me ”Weren’t you hot on a bike?” It was only then I realized the day was considered hot, because I had wind cooling, and they had a metal greenhouse with solar gain.
It might not be a bad idea to get some kind of insurance in the alarmingly likely event some jackass hits you and drives off either oblivious or indifferent.
