Women who were interested in STEM were also called witches back then too.
Science Memes
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Yes. Just read the story of Job to see how big of a bastard God is in The Bible
So, not trying to step on any mines here, and I get this is literally only a 2D representation of a phenomenon.
But what jumps out to me, is how "neurodivergence" is being defined kind of ahistorically. It supposes that neuro divergence is an essential, natural quality in humanity. That has real problems when we try to describe objective reality, especially the parts of us that aren't tangible.
Did ancient people mostly have 2 arms and legs, 10 fingers and toes at birth? Yeah, by all accounts. Were ancient people as intelligent as modern people? That question gets a little funky, because who and what gets defined as intelligent, is really historically and geographically dependent. European kings sent away to the most far flung monasteries to bring in trusted advisors who spoke multiple languages and could write awesome cursive; at the same time Fibonacci was bringing algebra and the foundations of calculus home from Turkiye and publishing them in Italy as brain teasers. Now cursive is worthless except as a craft, maybe some marketing, and calculus became the intellectual basis for the industrial revolution.
So if "neuro divergence" can be defined historically like intelligence, which in some ways the graph itself supports this claim, then we can't rely on an idea of human nature to make a point, especially since we are talking about scientific medical detection of a concrete divergence or disorder.
So like, what is divergence? What is being diverged from? The baseline has always been a vibe.
I've read studies that show better outcomes, increased happiness, better social integration measured among children and students with autism who spent time working on farms around animals. Structured, satisfying, hands on work, that used to make up most of the population. Now farmers is a micro minority, either owning land and charging people to work it, or working land for not enough money -- hard, degrading, difficult, exceedingly dangerous work.
Other factors like screen time, social media, increase in dietary simple sugars, all show measurable changes in behaviors of people with ADHD, social anxiety, autism, bipolar, borderline disorders. Academics like Michel Foucault have studied how mental health treatment and psychiatry (additionally schools, and hospitals) are directly descended from the development of mass imprisonment and incarceration during the industrial revolutions in England, France, Germany, etc.,
Foucault also reviews sources that show more kind and forgiving attitudes in society toward people with severe social dysfunctions and intellectual disabilities. I wouldn't go nearly as far as saying that people with disorders and divergences were better off -- I believe that the medieval monastery was a "safe" place for a lot of people with what might now be described as neuro divergent, but also acknowledge the medieval church exploited poverty and mental illness for official and unofficial purposes.
But it does raise the question of how people, who may be intellectually "equal," when raised under different conditions develop quite differently. And the way our current system functions, it uses value judgments and certifications, etc., to slot me into a specific place. But once in that place, i have to almost be a certain kind of person in order to succeed. The role isn't suited to the person filling it, but to the needs of the organization. And usually the org needs to make money.
If there is greater social stigma towards disorder and divergence than there once was, that plays a major factor in whether people even want to be diagnosed. Lots of people have commented on self identification with neuro divergence as being a "tik tok trend" or some such. But a friend of mine, in an unofficial obit she wrote for someone older, made a point to say that previous generations looked at MH like it meant you were off to meet the business end of an ice pick.
For myself, learning I have ADHD and treating it has been holistically helpful. I'm open about it with people, we will see if it bites me in the ass.
I just worry a bit about the framing of "people have always been this way." While I agree it is true in a way; I think our society is extremely stressful and toxic.
And then to say that the baseline of neuro divergence is unchanged throughout time buys cover for people who are responsible for the environmental changes making people unwell, and getting richer because of it.
As a person who's special interest is calligraphy, what do you mean by cursive? I had always thought that scripts were on a spectrum between gothic and cursive, with more strokes per letter or less strokes respectively. Though I mostly practice ornamental penmanship (fancy spencerian), so I don't know much about the history of hands in Europe.
I guess I'm drawing a line between the late medieval period when there was accelerated social development of the EU, but not enough scribes and scholars, and so their work suddenly became very sought after in a new world made of contracts and written agreements. So I'm probably talking about arguably two different things. First when writing in a very formal manner was a literal sign of intelligence, because that kind of intellectual work became a necessary component of late pre-modern statecraft, and hence highly valued by the ruling classes of the time and place. The second connection is to cursive, which is a formalized writing that had real legal and business value just a few generations ago.
So I'm sure I am butchering the history of any actual scripts that were mentioned in this effort post. But as someone who has a pretty lively fascination with handwriting, font and text in general, I'd love any questions, clarifications, resources, criticisms and reprimands that are due!
Well I don't think the vocabulary is particularly important here, since they likely didn't use the words in the same way we do. Like some scripts like batard or English secretary hand were evolutions of the formal script that reduced pen strokes to be faster to write making them more cursive.
But I'm curious about the history of connected letter scripts like Italian round hand. But most of the books I've read about handwriting have been in the American tradition, and it helps they are easy to find on the Internet. Some cursory reading on the subject seems to point to it coming from Italy in the form of old Roman cursive. To my eyes old Roman cursive seems related but is too different for me to call a flowing connected letter script. This isn't surprising though since it was used to write on wax tablets.
It seems like something we would recognize in the modern world as a connected letter cursive originated in the late 15th century Italy out of italic script. But I don't speak Italian or Latin so I don't know how to find any primary sources on this.
Italy is a fascinating region to study language, it was broken up into city states well into the 1800s, with some of those city states serving as the center of culture and intellectualism for all of Europe, at various times. So there was like these very advanced areas of Italy, and these very backwards parts, and the 1800s was all about getting people all speaking the same language, the Florentine dialect.
I bet if someone took on such a study it would be a very uninteresting read. Also Italians are friendly and speak good English I bet you could connect with someone who could help explore the topic more!
I was talking to a friend recently. I was telling them that I felt like maybe I was hallucinating my diagnosis because so many people around me also had been diagnosed.
She pointed out that we both like to be around people that understand. They don’t get mad when we interrupt each other because they are struggling with the same thing.
She was so right.
You could also both be hallucinating.
Collective delusion/hallucination is a real thing. Often reinforced when like minded individuals form a tight social group that serves to isolate them from anyone who might challenged the hallucination, and who seek to reinforce it in each other.
Human beings are prone to mass hysteria because we are social animals, and our 'truth' about the world is largely a construct of our agreement with our peers. Psychological illness and behaviors, like anorexia, paranoia, etc. are transmissible psychological conditions. They are ideas in your head that eventually become the truth of your reality as they are reinforced by the ideas and realities of the people around you, and part of the drive to do that is for people to have their ideals/realities validated by others.
Also the un-taboofication of it... see, the "left-handed epidemic"
Am I reading this meme right when I think it's implying that folks are getting over-diagnosed with mental disorders? Because that's some RFK jr shit. Shame on you.
EDIT: I did misread it, I fully agree with OP.
No.
Oh my bad. What does the meme mean then?
It's the left-handed thing. The amount of neurodivergent people is the same but the amount of people being diagnosed is increasing because of an increased perception and understanding of neurodivergency.
Ah ok I did misinterpret it! Thanks for the correction.
We can't know whether the prevalence rates have changed or by how much an dita foolish to assume it's only because of better awareness. The world we exist tin has changed immensely and we are subject to to the affects of those changes.
further than that, our cultural expectations of what is 'normal' have shifted drastically over the past two generations.
i'd argue that what once in the 'normal', is no longer, hence leading to greater need and identification of various differences where none were previously seen. Sort of like how you think all birds are the same, until you become a bird watcher, then you see every birth as different by species, and if you are a scientist studying a particular population of birds, you would gain the ability to identify them by their individual personalities and characteristics.
but I, as a lay person, have no idea wtf the difference between a sparrow and a chickadee is, they are just all brown/black bird blobs of a similar size that try to steal my food when I eat outside. they are just 'birds' to me. but for someone with a PhD in ornithology, they are two completely different things.
To further that point, it's guaranteed that what was normal, isn't, anymore. Some things are, much isn't. For example, few men, relatively, know how to hunt anymore or would be willing or able to kill an animal. Becoming able to do that has wide ranging impacts on who they are. This used to be normal. If we accept that the environment shapes us then when it changes, so do we, and with that, what is considered normal, shifts.
Yeah, normative skillsets and social roles and expectations are in constantly changing.
My BIL grew up hunting and farming but he can't ever talk about it anymore because people view negatively in his current social environment of professional urban liberals, who think it is considered psychopathic to hunt/kill/dress animals. He used to hunt, trap, skin, and all that to make money as a teenager. What was totally normal for him, is considered borderline criminal behavior to the people around him now.
Yah, urban liberals can be exceptionally closed minded, in their own unique way.
And if you confront them about it. they tell you how ignorant and wrong you are, because they can't possible be wrong because they are just so 'open-minded' if you can't see how open minded and correct they are, clearly you are a close-minded fool.
Yep. Their moral arrogance makes them socially aggressive, especially in the face of uncomfortable, practical realities. They refuse to acknowledge that they are the modern day version of the very morality policing they vilify from previous generations. They don't see it because they don't hold the same values or beleifs that the past generations did, and it is the beliefs and values they disagreed with, not the system.
I look at them and see the a similarly oppressive, prejudice, abusive social control system. They see that the beleifs and values are different. It was never that the whole system was wrong, it was that the system didn't support their beleifs and values. Now that it does, and they control it, they're content to engage in similar oppression and prejudice of the groups they dislike.
It has always been about control, in service to self interest. It was not about building a better, more just and fair society. It's part of why the left and right are so far apart today and how Trump is in the white house, again, abusing the power of the executive almost exclusively for personal gain.

Ah since some of us are sharing our childhood experiences with being left handed:
I am ambidextrous, like many lefties. While learning to write my letters in Kindergarten (age 5 for non-US peeps), my teacher noticed that I’d switch hands when the one writing got tired. She didn’t like this at all and kept telling me that I needed to choose one. She actually made quite a stink about it so I chose my left, idk why the left specifically.
I still write with my left, despite trying to retrain back to writing with both at different times in my life. I feel like a mini superpower was taken from me.
Interestingly enough, I’ve noticed that my large motor skills are best used with my right side (arm, leg, hand), and my small motor skills with the left. I think it’s a leftover from being truly ambidextrous, or it may be common amongst left handed people. Idk…the very few others I’ve asked seem to be left handed/sided exclusively.
I think if I had to choose a hand I would choose the right, just because we write left to right and I wouldn’t want to track my hand through fresh pencil and pen marks.
My friend in highschool was left handed and his left hand was always completely covered in graphite.
She didn’t like this at all and kept telling me that I needed to choose one.
i hate it when someone sees something cool and unusual and immediately feels the need to correct it... as if it were a negative thing.
oh - a kindergartner is so good at writing that they can write with either hand, and you see a problem in that?? it's such a sad way to think! it's counterproductive pedantry
nobody is really wired to me one hand or the other, we can all learn to be ambidextrous. your are that way because you just feel more comfortable/experienced doing certain things with one hand than the other, it's a formation of neuromuscular habit.
it's just a matter of practice, but yes, as children the adults around us often DEMAND we be one or the other. just like they demand gendered behaviors, etc. And children conform because adults like conformity.
it's interesting as an adult, like getting coaching and having to re-learn basic bio mechanics you 'assume' are some sort of default, because well, nobody ever told/taught you you could/should be doing things differently. like there are different way to hold pens for different styles of writing...
not any different really when say, comes to language use and accents. you have a 'native' one you got from your upbringing, but you can unlearn it and a lot of people do because they won't gain social acceptance if they retain it. when I code switch to my 'native' speech... people freak out because it offends them because I'm supposed to sound smart and 'educated' , not like a stupid working-class hick. and of course, the first year i came back from college all my family/friends basically asked me why i was such a douchebag and talked so pretentiously...
I remember my dad would tell me his teachers (mean ass nuns) would make him put his knuckles on the desk and smash that shit with a ruler until he stopped using his left hand
But we only can know the yellow. I wouldn't be surprised if the blue line had a positive slope over a ten thousand year scale. We are less and less fit for the environment we make.
I’ve thought of this so many times and I agree with you.
As we’ve essentially homogenized human society and the roles required to sustain said society, we (neurodivergents) have indeed become less and less fit for the environment we’ve chosen to make.
I once heard this great take on neurodiversity’s role in creating groups of people with ‘specialized’ functions that served the larger group as a whole (I’m taking pre-modern/hunter gatherer tribes). What we call neurodivergence was simply a brain wired to complement or even enhance neurotypical brain functions and vice versa. The brain was evolving to become as diverse as the rest of our bodies, as equity helps ensure survival.
The way I see it, we are like puzzle pieces that fit together to make each other stronger as a unit. We are not simple shapes that one stacks together in an attempt to make structure. I’m sure there’s a much better analogy out there, but this is what my mind has been working on for some time now.