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How many renouncing their citenship for bad?
Daaaaaad!
Wait but if they leave, who will vote him out :(
I've thought about it. And it's not just Trump. I see Trump more as a symptom of the problem, not the problem himself.
The thing is, my values just don't align with many, if not most other Americans. A lot of Americans are fairly money obsessed. Many Americans are greedy and selfish. There seems to be a culture of getting rich anyway you can, even if it is through unethical means.
I also think many Americans are hyper consumers. The idea seems to be to work and hustle and grind intensely, to make as much money as possible so that you can spend that money conspicuously. Work hard, spend hard, party hard. Indulge, indulge, indulge. Money and indulgence and consumption supersedes relationships and any kind of social connection.
And somehow, for some this money obsessed consumerism runs concurrently with a bizarre form of Christianity, even though those two things seem to be at odds with one another. Don't get me wrong, the greed and the consumerism are by no means restricted only to Christian Americans. There are plenty of secular or atheist Americans who are plenty greedy, too. It just seems to be in the DNA of the nation. Everything's money and money is everything.
Americans will say, "there's nothing wrong with working hard to support your family," but it's not just supporting your family, it's about making enough money to buy a massive house and fill it with stuff, and fill your extra large garage with big, expensive cars and trucks, and all sorts of "toys," like boats and jet skis and four wheelers, and campers/RVs. And no matter how much stuff you have, it's never enough. You always need more, or better stuff. That goes way, way beyond just "supporting your family."
Frankly, I'm exhausted by it. I tried living that way for a lot of years but I don't have the energy anymore.
I mean, I don't really care if someone works honestly and gets more. Want to do OT and buy a jet ski? Fine, whatever. Not my preferred avenue but you do you.
What stands out more is the lack of morality. Basically no one seems to care about morals so long as they get theirs. Witness that it took something as simple and stupid as gas prices. That's far more concerning to me from a societal standpoint. We basically have no society because no one cares for anyone past their own nose. That's a huge problem.
I mean, I don't really care if someone works honestly and gets more. Want to do OT and buy a jet ski? Fine, whatever. Not my preferred avenue but you do you.
Yeah, but that's the thing: when the priority is get rich so you can buy lots of shit, morality becomes a secondary consideration, if it's a consideration at all. Morality, empathy and ethics should be the standard, with exceptional wealth and consumption being the exception, rather than exorbitant wealth and consumption being the goal and morality and empathy being fringe concepts.
It's not just that some people work a few extra hours to earn a jet ski, it's that our culture conditions us to believe that the money and the things are what people should be primarily striving for, and that everything else is unimportant.
I get people wanting to bust their humps and do a bunch of work towards a goal. You want to spend a month just screwing around with your new jetski in the summer and doing OT every week for several months or working a second job for that time will let you do it, I get it. The thing that puts me off is the number of people who see just work and accumulation of stuff as the end goal unto itself. They'll brag about never calling out sick or missing a single day of work, not taking their vacations (or going, but still living in their work inboxes, sending out so many emails they may as well not have gone on one), and saying stuff like "Oh, I could never retire, I wouldn't know what to do with my time, there's nothing to do." And then these people are held up as models that we should aspire to.
I don't care if a job pays me so much that I could afford a dream vacation, jetskis and all the new gadgets every year if I have to be working so much I never even get to do/use any of those things the salary makes possible. I'd much rather take a job with a salary that lets me do fewer of those things, or even having to skip years between one and the next, but lets me clock out and have enough time to myself to take care of myself and pursue hobbies and interests outside of work on a regular basis.
I agree with you for the most part.
The thing that bugs me is myself and family not being that way here, but the system that permeates every single interaction starts to clench on you. You'll be content, but the water keeps rising and trying to take more and more from you.
The costs keep rising, the packages keep shrinking, the wages are always stagnate so you're supposed to hustle harder, work longer, get another job or clown around for attention or 'sell feet pics bb' or whatever other ridiculous hustle just to maintain a basic standard.
For people who see the consumerist rat race for the scam it is, we're passively and actively punished at every turn.
That's the part I'm sick of. I just wanna live simply, splurge on hardware every few years, and make videogames.
I struggle to imagine it being different elsewhere. It'd be cool to be smart / valuable enough to be a desirable immigrant to a civilized country. Lol
Hate to break it to you but America is not the only country like that. Shit id argue American isn't even in the top 5 for hyper consumerism and classism. I live outside the country and it sucks everywhere
That is unfortunate. I guess there's no place for people like me.
It might be naive of me but I think there is. It's a lot of work but we can develop self -sustaining communities that support each other. That support can look a variety of ways too, from shopping at each others small businesses to sharing crops from gardens and farms
Exactly, there really are not that many places where this isn’t the case. You have to make the choices yourself to consume less and be more social with others. It doesn’t mean you have to abandon your own country to do that.
Wish I had the money and transferrable skills to get the fuck out of here.
Speaking English is a skill in many countries
Just "speaking English" typically won't get you a job unless you have a degree to back it up.
Not true, in China they take anyone from America to teach English
It's enough to get you in the door in some countries if you're willing to teach English. But it won't get you permanent residence without a lot more work.
Also most countries where that's possible (East Asia) aren't much of an improvement over the US if you're running from rampant capitalism and social conservatism.
That doesn't mean you get accepted in a country just cause you can speak it.
No, I mean in a country where English is not spoken English teachers are sometimes needed
I left with my toddler, dog, and non-US-citizen wife in February this year. It took 10 months of planning + prep work, and cost us a great deal financially. Went from a household income of $160k to $40k. And every day I see another headline I’m reassured that we made the right decision.
We don’t have to pay US taxes since we make less than $120k, but we still have to file US taxes. I’ll retain my citizenship for voting rights (they’ll come for them soon enough though).
Pro-tip: Depending on the country you moved to and if your child has U.S. citizenship, you can file for a Child Tax Credit and get up to $2200 per child per year.
Hey that's me! Well I've left at least, need to get citizenship elsewhere before I renounce, but that's the path I'm on. Idgaf about dual citizenship or having a US passport in the future fuck all that I never want anything to do with the US again
Oddly enough, the US is almost the only country in the world that allows you to renounce without having another citizenship.I wouldn't recommend it, bit technically you don't need another citizenship first.
(Seriously, don't do this.)
This month my wife and I will be celebrating two years in Germany. Germany is not perfect and immigrating to another country is rough but we are much happier, healthier, and secure here. We never want to go back to the US. We are working on permanent residence (visa) and then citizenship.
Renouncing? Won't that make it harder for the others to vote better leaders into office?
Isn't this what Trump wants?
The US is one of only two countries in the world to tax the foreign earnings of its expats (the other is Eritrea). They’re so annoying about it on the finance side that many foreign banks refuse to give accounts to US expats. Renunciation is the only way to avoid that mess.
The US also takes a big exit tax on the wealth of anyone renouncing.
Yep. You're fleeced until your last American breath and the IRS will freeze your passport if you dont hand over your money. It's kidnap and ransom for not making extortion payments.
But the IRS is like "Sorry. Hands tied :(" going after all those Swiss bank accounts and offshore shells within shells where 0% goes to taxes.
What if I renounce after leaving and taking all my money with me first? How going tax me then?
It used to be that you have to pay a big fat one-time fee to renounce, as kind of a substitute for all of your future tax payments.
I think they changed the rules on that recently, though.
I can't help but sympathize with people who think "fuck it, gonna focus on my own happiness." Life is short, and normal people's ability to have a say has been sabotaged.
That and when your compatriots can't do the simplest of asks why would you blame them.
Depends. The cost of moving out and renouncing is not cheap so the folks left would be a rather angry working class
You think? I've never made more than 50k a year even when married and we both worked full time. My sis, not to hold grudges or shit, works 20hrs and wakes up at noon and gets paid 100k a year. All because of luck and good timing. I literally can't afford food, rent, heathcare, not to mention my cat with all the bullshit going on.
The sad thing is I had a American dream that one day I wouldn't be suffering as a wage slave forever.
"Look at those lousy traitors! They never really loved America anyway."
That's how MAGats will play it off.
Honestly, I'm not sure I'm going to correct them.
Are the 1% fleeing the ship they sunk?
I will stay to watch the meltdown as long as I live, I feel that it's kinda bullshit to flee, but I get it.
If I had a family I would be at least be planning to leave, but I want to be there at the end if possible.
The American Dream was a bum deal and no more live shooter drills for my kids. Fuck it I'm out.
I still vote though. Good luck my friends. ❤️
Skulls for the skull throne!
Same, I am living on hella lot of spite and still want to be here for my parents and friends. I don’t like the idea of being a pussy coward and fleeing my homeland because some assholes made it worse.
I've decided that if they come after my naturalization they'd be doing me a favor. I already left. The taxes make it tempting.
I'm just gonna kill myself
It'd be less costly, emotionally and financially, for you, your loved ones, and your next of kin if applicable if you were to move to another country. Hell, vacation there just to get a change of scenery or a taste of the life you want. Don't throw your life away just because things are bad now.
Does that mean they successfully give a stink to the IRS?
Gee... I wonder what ever could be the reason
I get it, but also... Fuck Trump and the fascists. I won't let my absence from this country make it any easier for them.