this post was submitted on 03 May 2026

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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards

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-9

Banned from dbzer0/Palestine for pointing out most Jews support Israel (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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Moderator on dbzero /Palestine believes pointing out that 80-90% of Jews worldwide are Zionists is antisemitic

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Regular reminder that yptb is to judge the mod action and not to rehash the discussion which led to the mod action

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The discussion is extremely relevant and directly coupled to the action.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not really.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Half the comments here are denying the fact itself and using that as the reason to call my comment correcting the OOP antisemitic.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 week ago

While I let some leeway for nuance, this is not the space to resolve this argument. Just go to a debate sub or something. If people tell you YDI just live with it, it's their judgement

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

YDM. I mean, you actually wrote this:

You’re undermining to pro-Palestine movement by calling everything and everyone who opposes Israel antisemitic.

... in response to a comment that not only was not "calling everything and everyone who opposes Israel antisemitic" (it says your characterization of Jews might be), but which actually says "I despise the Apartheid colonialist political ideology that is zionism".

You are undermining the pro-Palestine movement by equating zionism with jewishness, to the point that I am becoming increasingly skeptical about your actual motivations.

[+] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No the commenter was doing what you are doing now: claiming that accurately describing reality that 80-90% of Jews are Zionists is antisemitic and that is s a dogwhistle against Jews because somehow I'm a Nazi for pointing out that synagogues are selling Palestinian land.

In fact the original comment never mentioned the word Jew. They said religion. But OOP instantly went "whoa that's antisemitic stop dogwhistling bro".

I've linked the article above already. Please read it before responding https://lemmy.ml/post/46790185/25489292. Loading your comment with "I am becoming increasingly skeptical about your actual motivations" is straight out of the Labour campaign against Jeremy Corbyn.

[–] Lasherz12@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's closer to 64% https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/04/07/negative-views-of-israel-netanyahu-continue-to-rise-among-americans-especially-young-people/

Ironically evangelicals are now more favorable of the ethnostate of Israel than the supposed benefactors. "Supposed" because it's trivial to see Jewish folk are not made safer by the existence of Israel.

Still, this supposes that a majority opinion gives carte blanche to antisemitic dog whistles about supposed dual loyalty, etc. It's shameful to lump in some folks who are vehemently opposed to the genocide as willing participants. The polling mostly has just shown that people who get their news from zionist networks tend to be more zionist, but even then over time that dam is breaking. Unfortunately the media environment and powers that be provide an outsized influence compared to reality on the ground in a place the people polled don't live.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The 2025 Pew Research poll was already quoted by the article I linked. It went from 73 to 64% but you're interpreting "positive view" as "should exist".Which accompanying polls show is not the same at all.

https://tariqacknickulous.substack.com/p/yes-most-jews-are-in-fact-zionists

American Jews are less Zionist than most Jews worldwide that much is true and is pointed out by the article itself.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Trying to equate Zionism with all Jews is antisemitic by definition. It doesn't matter if its 50% or 90% of Jewish people who support Zionism. It's a trap to do so since then you can be dismissed for being antisemitic, which seems to be the case here.

If all you are arguing is that the majority of Jews support Zionism, well that's probably true. But let's not fall for the antisemitic trap of judging every member of a religion by the worst examples. Otherwise we are no better than the folks who characterise all muslims as violent terrorists.

[+] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So if someone denies that the vast Majority of Jews are Zionists nobody is allowed to correct them because that's "antisemitic". Got it.

Nice throwing the false Muslim terrorist equation in there but the vast majority of Muslims do not support ISIS or any similar organisation. But if they did would it be Islamophobic to correct someone saying they didn't?

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think it's fine to point out that a majority of Jews are Zionists, but the implication that it's ok to judge an entire religion by it's worst members, even if they are a majority, is not ok. Because that's how we people make the leap from "death to Zionists" to "death to Jews". One is a statement of solidarity with the Palestinian cause. The other is just plain old antisemitism, disguised as social justice.

[+] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because that's how we people make the leap from "death to Zionists" to "death to Jews".

It isn't. Your stance is how we get Zohran Mamdani condemning protests outside a Synagogue selling stolen Palestinian land. Pointing out the systemic Zionism in Jewish institutions doesn't mean "wishing death upon all Jews."

You did just literally wish death upon 80-90% of Jews worldwide though. Doesn't that make you the antisemite?

https://ofpatmos.substack.com/p/fight-jewish-exceptionalism

Anyone who holds Jewish exceptionalist sympathies is thus primed to be manipulated into liberal Zionist ideas & solutions, and primed to be sympathetic to Israelis when working towards the best outcomes for Palestinians is often going to require us to have much harder hearts. If one believes that there is something special about Jews in this way, then when the time comes to take coercive actions that are sure to harm Israeli Jews and hurt the feelings of their Jewish supporters abroad, we will not be able to count on their support.

It’s easy to claim to support BDS when it’s not being done at scale yet, but will you be able to withstand the inevitable attempts at emotional manipulation if sanctions and blockades are ever truly imposed upon Israel? Will you falter when you hear about how much this is harming (gasp!) Jewish Israelis?

When the time comes to evict the Israeli settlers from the West Bank, will you laugh in the face of those framing it as an ethnic cleansing of poor, vulnerable, innately oppressed Jews and a Second Holocaust?

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It isn’t. Your stance is how we get Zohran Mamdani condemning protests outside a Synagogue selling stolen Palestinian land. Pointing out the systemic Zionism in Jewish institutions doesn’t mean “wishing death upon all Jews.”

If a synagogue is engaged in Zionism like selling stolen Palestinian land, then they deserve to be condemned for it. But not because they are Jewish, because they are Zionists.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sure. I don't disagree with that. But the question is: do these synagogues not accurately represent Judaism if the overwhelming majority of Synagogues and Jewish religious institutions are Zionist? Because the OOP says they're not and I got banned only for correcting them that they are.

Someone mentioned below the majority of Christians are Zionist I agree with them. Nobody has a problem pointing out that most Christians are Zionist. and most Christinian institutions are Zionist.

But for some reason when you point out the same thing for Jews, somehow that's wishing death upon all Jews. In that case why wouldn't the same go for Zionist Christians being in danger if someone pointed out how deep the Zionist movement is within the (especially Evangelical) church?

The crux of this comes back to the belief that Jews in the modern day are an oppressed minority at the cusp of being thrown into the ovens again. Luckily my favorite substack author has also addressed this https://tariqacknickulous.substack.com/p/privileged-reality-of-jewish-demographics

At the heart of every argument within the spectrum of Zionism lies the uncritically accepted belief that Jews are an eternally oppressed people and that antisemitism is a constant, rampant threat. The charge of antisemitism often functions as a thought-terminating cliché, deployed not only by staunch Zionists but even by well-meaning individuals who identify as pro-Palestine. Yet few pause to critically examine this assumption. What is the actual reality of Jewish oppression today, and how does contemporary antisemitism compare to the narrative so widely accepted?

By any objective measure, Jews are not a marginalized or oppressed group. Rather than facing structural or systemic oppression, they represent one of the most privileged demographics globally. The Jewish population is overwhelmingly concentrated in wealthy Western nations and their own ethnostate, societies that dominate the global imperial order. Within these power centers, Jewish communities consistently rank among the most affluent and highly educated groups, outperforming nearly all other demographics in measures of economic success and social mobility.

“As anti-Semitic barriers quickly fell away after World War II, Jews rose to preeminence in the United States. According to Lipset and Raab, per capita Jewish income is almost double that of non-Jews; sixteen of the forty wealthiest Americans are Jews; 40 percent of American Nobel Prize winners in science and economics are Jewish, as are 20 percent of professors at major universities; and 40 percent of partners in the leading law firms in New York and Washington. The list goes on. Far from constituting an obstacle to success, Jewish identity has become the crown of that success. Just as many Jews kept Israel at arm’s length when it constituted a liability and became born-again Zionists when it constituted an asset, so they kept their ethnic identity at arm’s length when it constituted a liability and became born-again Jews when it constituted an asset.” — Norman Finkelstein, The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering (2000)

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But for some reason when you point out the same thing for Jews, somehow that’s wishing death upon all Jews. In that case why wouldn’t the same go for Zionist Christians being in danger if someone pointed out how deep the Zionist movement is within the (especially Evangelical) church?

Saying something like "An estimated 80-90% of Jews in modern time are also Zionists" with stats to back it up is perfectly fine to say, but it's also worth acknowledging the fact that "10-20% of Jews are not Zionists".

What you seem to be arguing is that, because Jews are majority Zionist, we should treat every Jewish person as though they are Zionist. The problematic part is in bold:

80-90% of Jews in modern time are Zionists. Zionism is the accurately representative of modern Judaism. Especially religious Judaism where virtually every present day synagogue is Zionist.

This is simply conflating Zionism with being Jewish as though they are the same thing. While the majority of Jews may well be Zionists (I don't know whether the 80-90% figure is accurate or not, but let's assume for the sake of argument it is), it's still wrong imo to characterize all Jews as Zionists. Like another poster mentioned, there are still potentially millions of Jews who do not support Zionism, and/or who oppose Israel's genocide of the Palestinians.

But the question is: do these synagogues not accurately represent Judaism if the overwhelming majority of Synagogues and Jewish religious institutions are Zionist?

No, they don't - and you are making the same mistake again. Pro-Zionist Jewish synagogues cannot be said to represent Judaism as a whole, because not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Jews attend Temple. Why do you feel the need to stereotype all Jews, and all congregations as being the same? YDI.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Saying something like “An estimated 80-90% of Jews in modern time are also Zionists” with stats to back it up is perfectly fine to say, but it’s also worth acknowledging the fact that “10-20% of Jews are not Zionists”.

Yes that's literally done by saying not 100% of Jews are Zionists but 80 to 90%. It'd be great if it was more. In fact most (especially European) Jews used to oppose Zionism until Zionist Jews worked together with the Nazis to literally kill off non-Zionist Jews and force the rest of them to become Zionists.

And now we're in the present where the equation has massively changed. And we're not talking about 55 or 60%. We're talking overwhelming majority numbers. 80 to 90%.

To dismiss the beliefs of 12 million people because of a max 3 million people not sharing their view doesn't make any sense. Why would the views of the overwhelming majority of a group not accurately represent them, but a small minority do? If this argument was about anything else but the percentage of Jews being Zionist, this wouldn't even be a debate. It 90% of Christians supported Zionism then Zionist Christianity would be an accurate representation of Christianity.

it’s still wrong imo to characterize all Jews as Zionists. Like another poster mentioned, there are still potentially millions of Jews who do not support Zionism, and/or who oppose Israel’s genocide of the Palestinians.

Why do you feel the need to stereotype all Jews, and all congregations as being the same?

Why do you keep misrepresenting my argument which doesn't state that all Jews are Zionist but the majority are? Why is it "antisemitic" to simply correct this notion?

Because your argument is rooted in Liberal Zionism. I pick this battle because I actually support Palestine. Here's a much longer format explanation if you still don't get it after the articles.

Jewish Exceptionalism, Liberal Zionism, Jewish Supremacy - How YOU Inadvertently Support Israel

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because your argument is rooted in Liberal Zionism.

No, it's rooted in an understanding of how harmful majority stereotypes are. You completely ignored the bolded sentence which was the one I identified as antisemitic, and instead focused on the first sentence, which I agreed was fine.

80-90% of Jews in modern time are Zionists [FINE]. Zionism is the accurately representative of modern Judaism [ANTISEMITIC].

You could safely reword it to something like "The majority of Jews support Zionism". That would be accurate.

Otherwise it's no different from claiming something like "80% of gay men are promiscuous [made up statistic btw]" and then going on to state "Promiscuity is accurately representative of male homosexuality" as though it were true for every gay man.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

OP’s black-and-white thinking* leads him in these directions sometimes. He keeps getting mentions on c/meanwhileongrad despite not being a “tankie,” since dialectical materialism is the furthest thing from dichotomous thinking.

*I don’t mean to psychologize; the wiki entry just happens to be categorized as such.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago

Agreed, and it's an all too common mistake that I'm sure we have all been guilty of at one time or another.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 week ago

And now we’re in the present where the equation has massively changed. And we’re not talking about 55 or 60%. We’re talking overwhelming majority numbers. 80 to 90%.

Then you believe collective punishment is correct and justified. Where have I heard that one before...

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The context in which you "pointed it out" is hella sus. It's hard to imagine a motivation to say that when, where, and how you did that isn't driven by antisemitism. You sound like one of the "Despite making up 13% of the population..." chuds, which is gonna get you an instaban anywhere with respectable mods. I wanna say BPR because you should absolutely know better

Side note: Every Jewish person I know (like a dozen) is anti-zionist, so I don't really give af about your Nazi statistics- don't bother arguing about it with ne

[+] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

It's sad that so many "leftists" cannot be bothered to read any theory. Correcting someone out that the vast majority of the in-group colonizing a country is supportive of the colonization makes you a Nazi now.

The reason this is important is because you have people which say that protesting against colonization of Palestine next to synagogues which are selling Palestinian land is "antisemitic".

Because they have never been told that almost all Jewish institutions support Zionism because of people like you come out calling anyone who does a Nazi.

Yes, Most Jews are in fact Zionists

A fact that we must all contend with first and foremost is that Zionism is absolutely rampant among Jews worldwide. It is not just the official mandated ideology of almost all Jewish institutions and organizations, but also among Jewish communities and families.

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I read the article before commenting. I stand by what I said

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I wouldn't ban OP for it, but they're making some bad and suspect arguments.

Most importantly there's no objective criteria for people being "jewish". So any poll is fairly suspect at its face. IMO zionists shouldn't be considered jewish/christian/etc but their own particular cult.

It's also important to note that the vast majority of zionists are christians.

Etc.

Anyway I appreciate OP's posts overall so I would just say please chill with this.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

What's "suspect" about large scale studies on Zionism by mainstream news outlets?

It's also important to note that the vast majority of zionists are christians

Isn't it funny how nobody cares when you point out something for Christians but they flip when you point out the same thing for Jews.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago

YDI!

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago

FYI OP has been home instance banned for a couple of weeks.

[–] redrumBot@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The Jewish people remain an oppressed minority, therefore, in my opinion, any analysis of Judaism (ethnic or religious) vs. Zionism vs. Israel must start from the basis of special respect for that minority.

Even if there were studies that support that percentage you point out, any reference should be made with care, moderation, and contextualization and, strictly speaking, it corresponds more to an internal debate in the Jewish community (to which I do not belong).

In conclusion: YDI (I assume it was a tempban).

Death to Israel

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The Jewish people remain an oppressed minority...

Can we really count Jews as "oppressed" in 2026?

IMO, they are arguably the most privileged minority in the west with their proximity to whiteness, specific codified anti-hate-crime/"antisemitism" laws, and a literal ethnostate guaranteed by imperialist hegemony.

[–] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Considering that antisemitism still exists, Jewish people are murdered for being Jewish, their places of worship are attacked, and that NeoNazis still consider them enemy number 1; Yes, we can count them as oppressed, and to a degree most minorities do not suffer.

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

I associate the words "oppression" and "repression" with actions performed by states or non-government authorities.

I'm not going to continue this discussion, since its off-topic.

[–] belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well for one thing thats a bullshit number and regurgitation of nazi propaganda is likely what got you banned.

Zionism is not equivalent to judaism and its sus as fuck to act like it is. You dont wanna be seen as a nazi sympathizer, then dont regurgitate their talking points.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

So let me get this clear: you are saying that the overwhelming majority of Jews are not Zionists and anyone who says otherwise is a Nazi?

[–] BillMangionee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

So, preceding to not follow into the same trap as the remainder commenters here have made of addressing the content and not the mod action...

You ban someone for making a comment (because you disagree with them) just to have the discussion continue in another board/community (this thread).

Whats was the point in banning them then?

Just let their comment remain and get down-voted to the floor of the thread - that's the point of voting on a comment. Now the discussion has been pulled out of the community that had informed subscribers, and into one that has broadly zero overlap with c/palestine.

BPR - Bait-Provoked Reaction: That mod probably overreacted in charged situation, or due to being baited.