this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2026

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Should we revisit the instance picker to have an easier default choice? (media.piefed.zip)

submitted 4 weeks ago by Blaze@piefed.zip to c/piefed_meta@piefed.social

117 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1quso40/european_reddit_alternative_piefed_users_surge/o3cfxy9/

Also found in a !fedibridge@lemmy.dbzer0.com post by @biltong@piefed.co.za : https://piefed.co.za/c/fedibridge/p/22233/post-on-r-buyfromeu-on-the-recent-surge-of-users-to-piefed

I like the way Voyager does it:

https://vger.app/profile

DeltaChat also has a very easy onboarding process: you just put your name, and that's it. The app creates the password in the background and allows you to switch servers easily. That really helps with onboarding new joiners.

Piefed.zip could be a nice default choice. If there are others you see, feel free to suggest.

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[–] INeedMana@piefed.zip 26 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

I'm afraid that icankillpenguins might be right. That most people don't really know what a server is, so when asked to pick one they freeze

My thoughts, numbered only for potential referencing

I guess for now it could be managed by hand which server they get routed to. But that's not an ideal solution IMO
I think that idea of checking response speeds is a good idea
keeping option to read the instance's description and choose another one is a good idea
theoretically, joining a general instance vs an opinionated one might not work for those that are not opinionated or are opinionated the other way. So I think it should be discussed if instances should be able to mark themselves as general or opinionated and the initial choice be from among the general ones
it would be a good idea to somehow rotate between proposed instances based on MAU or some other metric

[–] weingeist@piefed.social 18 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I signed up a minute ago, and I was so confused (still am, tbh). But luckily there was the button "I dont know, help" me, which scrolled down a centimeter, which was actually not that helpful :D

[–] Sergio@piefed.social 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Well you made a good decision! If you still need help, look here:

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Also !newcomers@piefed.zip

[–] Sergio@piefed.social 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I was gonna say: if you still have questions after that, then just @Blaze@piefed.zip

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 5 points 4 weeks ago

And if you have a language issue, !languagesettings@lemmy.zip

[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 7 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

maybe like p2p/torrent? prioritise based on some mathematical equation involving bandwidth, users and server stability

if this means a few big pro run servers end up taking the dominant share is this really a bad thing so long as other servers are available?

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[–] fizzle@quokk.au 4 points 4 weeks ago

I think point 4 is critically important. It's great that the fediverse has kooky instances but lets not throw new users to the wolves by referring them to "random" instances.

IMO, pre-select a half dozen good choices, discard the third with the slowest response times, make a random selection from the remainder.

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[–] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 23 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

We should add a button that says "I don't care, choose for me" that chooses a random server. Some of them will end up on Chinese Piefed, but most will be happy with their choice, and hopefully we can give the other two buttons good names that help people choose.

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 21 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Judging by the discussion OP links to the text should probably read something like "I don't understand the question, just sign me up".

And those users need to be signed up to the site they are currently on, because that's where they will return to to sign in later on. If you forward them somewhere else they'll have no idea what's going on.

It's incredible how terrifying the prospect of a choice can apparently be to people who have grown up without any.

[–] cile.sb@piefed.social 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The problem isn’t the choice itself – it’s that we don’t understand what we’re gaining or losing when picking a server. There’s no explanation of what a server is on the selection page. Does it really not matter which server I choose? Are the communities the same across all servers? If someone posts something on one server, will it be synced to all servers? My wife doesn’t know what the word “server” means, and I think most people are the same. Or are we expecting only IT folks to use the platform?

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[–] wjs018@piefed.wjs018.xyz 14 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Something like that could be a good place to utilize "trusted instances." So, instead of just choosing a random instance of all of the piefediverse, it chooses a random trusted instance.

The feedback in this thread overall has been helpful.

[–] Natanael@slrpnk.net 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Asking "what topics are you interested in" / "what communities do you like" and "what's important to you" would also help.

Also, "I'm a returning user who did not like the first choice X because of Y" should be an option.

You didn't like the moderation? Too many defederations? Wrong kind of weird? Bad server performance?

Then try to pick something for them that fixes those problems

[–] Skavau@piefed.social 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

This would also require many instances to set out in detail their location, focus etc and have a category system that recognises that.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 4 points 4 weeks ago

https://join-lemmy.org/instances has exactly that.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

The fediseer can help here both with the trusted instances and with finding servers based on tags

[–] Skavau@piefed.social 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Trusted instances would have to be set on an instance by instance basis else the old accusations would come out of preloading bias.

[–] wjs018@piefed.wjs018.xyz 6 points 4 weeks ago

This is already the case. Each instance sets their own trusted instances. There are no instances trusted by default. In /admin/instances if you click edit in an instance's row, then you can check the box that it is a trusted instance. Also, these are one-sided relationships. Instance A can mark Instance B as trusted, but the converse is not required.

[–] lemmyng@piefed.ca 16 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Mastodon is working on addressing this on their side, by trying to recommend instances geographically close to the user. Perhaps a similar process could be used here?

[–] rimu@piefed.social 3 points 4 weeks ago

Yes, that's what PieFed does now.

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[–] Skavau@piefed.social 14 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Sorry, but some of the people in that thread arguing about federation (something they still don't understand) are not interested in finding out how it works.

You could literally make them an account on piefed.social, and they would still be confused on account of all of the communities and usernames from different servers.

I truly think it's best to not put too much stock in one obstinate user arguing about it when 10 others quietly sign up and try it out with no hand-holding needed.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 8 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

There is definitely some bad faith among a few of those commenters.

However, we should probably try to still improve the signup process. As I said in the OP, Voyager's works already better, and that's a Fediverse app.

[–] Skavau@piefed.social 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

One user in particular. And nothing will ever satisfy them.

"I don't want a solution. I just want to be mad" if you are familiar with that mini comic

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 6 points 4 weeks ago (14 children)

I just skimmed through the whole thread. That one user was the most vocal, but there were dozens of other people making similar comments.

We all have families that are not tech-savvy. My sister or my parents can use email just fine because the onboarding was easy, with defaults values that can just be used by most of the users without them having to make any choice.

I used Voyager's as an example, but DeltaChat works the same: you just put your name, and then you can start chatting. And it's federated and self-hostable, but it just hides it by default to make the sign up process easy

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[–] moonshadow@slrpnk.net 13 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Keep it as-is specifically as a barrier to entry for reddit user "icankillpenguins"

[–] Crozekiel@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 weeks ago

Is there a way to make it easier for literally everyone else but conversely making it significantly more complicated specifically for reddit user "icankillpenguins"?

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 13 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

I think the "it doesn't matter which server you pick" default reply should also be done away with, because it does matter. However, like e-mail, it allows you to communicate with every other server (unless you're in a server that's been widely banned for reasons) and can be online while other servers aren't.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 weeks ago

I think there should be a review page for instances that allows comments. That would help immensely. The person reviewing has to have been, or is currently a subscriber and it's listed how long. The longer, the higher the review.

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 12 points 4 weeks ago

Honestly if this extremely low barrier keeps out the Facebook crowd then it's doing God's work.

[–] illi@piefed.social 11 points 4 weeks ago

I'm an European so I shouldn't agree I guess but I do. There should be a basic explanation on why a server has to be picked and having a "recommended" choice to pick could ease people in.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

It should just default to the last instance cm0002 commented from.

[–] nocturne@slrpnk.net 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Unsure which I have more of on my block list, *moe communities, or cmbots.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 4 points 4 weeks ago

even way back when there were less and people asked about people you blocked it was like. well half of them are alternates of one account so should really just be counted as one.

[–] rimu@piefed.social 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

The default choice is whatever instance you're currently on.

From https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser:

"I don't know, help me" scrolls you down to look at the instances (about 1cm, lol). I'm sure THAT could be more helpful!

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 5 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Maybe the default join should be bigger, and leave the other options for people who really want to have a look.

Actually, now that I think about it, and based on the Voyager screenshot above, maybe it should be something like

Big visible button "Join CurrentServer"
Less visible button "Pick another server"

And then only if people pick the second option, then then list appears.

That would make it less confusing for new joiners (they would just go the default path), and still gives people the option to look around.

[–] rimu@piefed.social 4 points 4 weeks ago

Yes, I agree

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (15 children)

The problem with your suggestion is that it creates centralization. See Mastodon.social, matrix.org, etc.

The solution, I have posted before, is to ask instances to be opted into a directory, and then present the user with a random suggestion from that list. There should be some basic criteria like uptime and a proper set of rules laid out of course.

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

This person is bordering on willfully obstinate. Any time you sign up for a service there are choices to be made. Social media will ask you to pick people or subjects to follow, sites will want you to pick communications preferences, etc.

Pick one server. Make the account. Don’t like it? Pick another. It doesn’t matter, there’s no karma here to hoard. Abandon that account you don’t like. Pick three. It’s like people can’t handle the freedom of choice.

[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 weeks ago

Modern Web has spoiled the average user. You never have to choose a server.

Need an account? Link your gmail/meta/whatever.

If there is a little bit of friction, the average user won't use it because corpos made sure that everything is a one click setup. And Lemmy is different in that regard, a bit old school.

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[–] laranis@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 weeks ago

Gonna say it again, but I like there being a minor barrier to entry on Lemmy. Like, if you can't even be bothered to pick a server then we don't want you here. If you want your social media to be spoon fed to you, fuck right off. If you want a reddit or Facebook clone, you're part of the problem.

Having a basic understanding of the Fediverse should be a prerequisite. Having to choose a server is a feature, a bare minimum. And as much as I want to see more content and more engagement here, I don't want to see it dumbed down either.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 4 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

PieFed.zip would make an excellent default (as long as the admins are okay with such).

Later, additional work could be done as people are suggesting - picking based on user ping, weighted by things like overall stability (itself influenced by aspects such as newness), and with a trusted filter to avoid bad actors - but we don't seem really close to a need for that, I would guess, with the current levels of traffic? (It currently reports having only 164 MAUs, compared to PieFed.social's 1775 and PieFed.ca's 601.)

If PieFed.zip starts to become overwhelmed (although lemmy.zip never did? despite it being like the #5 instance with multiple thousands of MAUs, see https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list and then the sidebar of https://lemmynsfw.com/ making it the real #2 despite not showing on the former list), then we could pick another instance to recommend as the default.

I suppose the main question, besides whether PieFed.zip's admins are okay with this, is whether other instances would feel unfairly discriminated against? The other chief alternative, at least if the goal is to entice users from Reddit specifically, might be PieFed.world, although there are only 4 Topic areas listed at https://piefed.world/topics (and until recently I thought there were none) so I wonder how ready they would be for an influx if it were to happen immediately. Feddit.online gives me pause to see "Stability: Medium", others such as PieFed.ca are more regional, quokk.au and Blåhaj PieFed etc. are more topical than general-purpose, and so on.

So that is why I think PieFed.zip seems a nearly unquestioned winner for now (though PieFed.world and Feddit.online might become more ready very soon), and then perhaps additional filters could be added at the top, to aid in picking e.g. regional or topical themed instances, like a series of questions asked of the user rather than having to simply read through the listing one by one.

Also, yeah remove the unhelpful I don't know help me button, and I would add an explicit acknowledgement that those instances are sorted by ping? It really helps to know that one detail!! (Especially if someone is using a proxy, they may want to change those settings in such case.)

Edit: another thought, perhaps replace the icons that are not explained with more standardized and immediately recognizeable indicators, such as 2 green up arrows for rocketship 🚀, 1 up arrow for lightning bolt ⚡, etc.

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[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 4 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

I really don't get folks that can't handle choosing something. I kinda feel I may be happier long term with the fediverse if that keeps them from signing up and engaging in it. Sorta of a you must be this tall to ride. You must be this competent to engage.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 4 points 4 weeks ago

https://lawsofux.com/choice-overload/

[–] nocturne@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 weeks ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overchoice

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[–] eleijeep@piefed.social 4 points 4 weeks ago

The Fediverse doesn't need to optimise for appealing to the lowest common denominator.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 weeks ago

I don't like the idea of a default server, because someday it will be the wrong one.

Much like recommending Linux I'm sure to specify "Linux Mint" and when I recommend XMPP I'm sure to specify jabber.org.

But it sounds like we could just be pointing newbies to Voyager or Piefed for awhile? I like various apps having a default, because we can always start recommending different app, if there's issues.

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