So what’s going on here, most likely, is that the intake of new users is declining as opposed to people specifically being driven off the platform (as some users allege).

The difference, one would assume, is that on the whole, Reddit’s political biases influence more what is not shown (much like lemmy.ml banning people for any criticism of Russia, China, or North Korea, or the echo chamber in hexbear), whereas Lemmy’s tankie issue also manifests as people actively sea-lioning (e.g. Cowbee) and (especially from hexbear) overt trolling, which shows up more in people’s faces. Both are issues, neither are good.

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[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 76 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

Oh this thread has a rare goat appearance!

"brigading" being a silly accusation example #9586473

Also:

And I cannot think of any better example of that than hexbear.net, which is why I am such a fan of either outright defederation if that is the only option, or at least making that instance opt-in rather than force it to be opt-out, which apparently seems to cause many people to flee us and go either back to Reddit or to Bluesky or whatever, hence opting out of the entire Threadiverse. Basically: either hexbear goes, or the newbie users do.

Uncritical support to hexbear for single-handedly driving away fragile 'apolitical' redditors from the entire platform.

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 20 points 3 months ago

Uncritical support to hexbear for single-handedly driving away fragile ‘apolitical’ redditors from the entire platform.

this is a godsend imo and that along make lemmy far superior to reddit.

[–] wolfinthewoods@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago

The ghost of Joseph McCarthy haunts the minds of many Americans still...

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[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 67 points 3 months ago (1 children)

[–] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 19 points 3 months ago

Thank you comrade Seal, very cool.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 66 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Open Stars' entire goal is to move people to PieFed, which has stronger censorship tools (such as not displaying replies publicly if a blocked user replies to someone, on Lemmy it only hides it for the blocker) and is ideologically anti-communist at a developer level. One of the ways they do that is by accusing Hex users of being "overt trolls," and therefore dismissable without evidence, and repeated unsubstantiated claims of me personally being a sealion. This is despite the fact that they've had my 3 accounts blocked for over a year, yet I'm still their go-to example.

[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 43 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

such as not displaying replies publicly if a blocked user replies to someone

This is slightly wrong, it's not that it doesn't display it, it's that it completely drops the comment. The comment is never added to the instance's database. It also is never federated, which I believe has the result that if you are talking on a community on the same instance as the blocker, the comment never makes it to other instances.

ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 40 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Interesting, so it's even more abusable than I thought!

[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 35 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yup. Of course, replies to that reply will also never show up. So this is one of the reasons I wouldn't use piefed, if user A has blocked user B or instance B, you won't see the reply from user B or instance B and replies to that reply (regardless of who or from where). So there can be an entire interesting discussion being had that you as a user on some piefed instance cannot see, not because you blocked someone or an instance but because someone else did.

ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 35 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yep, it's a really short-sighted decision with major ramifications that is entirely the product of the type of McCarthyites that would make their own Lemmy alternative just to curb communist influence. I was even considering proposing a PieFed commie instance to keep that connection going and increase exposure, but this seems like it wouldn't work at the moment.

[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 31 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Did you know, attempting to upload an image with "Anonymous" and ("No." or " N0") can^[1]^ decrease your "reputation"^[2]^ and you might^[1]^ be denied that upload, with as the code itself states: "deliberately misleading error message". Source

^1^: If the text check hasn't been disabled by the admin of your instance.
^2^: Literally Social Credit Score.

ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Incredible, every accusation is truly a confession.

[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 27 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

And hey, if your reputation is severely bad (<-10) you cannot downvote

We had a code review yesteday, and this is only half of what we found.

ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 25 points 3 months ago

I'm kinda surprised by just how bad it is, this is almost comically on the nose.

[–] ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What else did you find?

[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 26 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If your comment ~~is nothing but~~ starts wtih a link to a gif reaction it will decrease your reputation and not accept the comment

Just a line below that if your reply_is_stupid it won't accept it either.

If your account is created_very_recently and the reply contains an em dash (—) it sends a notification to the admins

If your attitude is < 0.0 you cannot downvote either. Attitude is as the code says: "(upvotes cast - downvotes cast) / (upvotes + downvotes). A number between 1 and -1 is the ratio between up and down votes they cast"

If your reputation is <= -10 you cannot create new chats.

If your account [Edit: is created recently and] has less than 100 reputation you are not considered trustworthy (what things you can do when you are trustworthy I don't know, but again literally social credit score)

If you have 0 posts, 0 replies, and your username is specifically 8 characters long, you cannot vote

Mods can kick you from a community which unsubscribes you from that community

ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.

[–] ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So much for supposedly having more free speech than us.

[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Something I didn't see in yesterdays code review.

if your reply contains a blocked_phrase, it won't accept the comment.

Seems like Lemmy's slur filter, but worse in that it just won't accept the comment (and I think that all of these things I have linked to in PostReply.new() where it won't accept a comment, results in federated comments... just never showing up on a piefed instance)

ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.

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[–] Atlas@lemmygrad.ml 60 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I think criticizing Russia, China, or North Korea is only bannable if you're also annoying.

skill issue

[–] vovchik_ilich@hexbear.net 50 points 3 months ago (2 children)

"Hexbear doesn't allow criticism of China!"

Meanwhile comrade Xiaohongshu getting a million upbears for their latest comment calling the CPC neoliberal.

Libs just cannot fathom that "Gyna auforitarian" is not good criticism and we don't allow shit criticism.

[–] ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Libs just cannot fathom that “Gyna auforitarian” is not good criticism and we don’t allow shit criticism.

With how meaningless the word is when used in the way liberals use it, it's not even criticism at all, it's just name calling.

[–] vovchik_ilich@hexbear.net 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Authoritarianism is when you don't get to vote once every 4 years to decide the colour of the party that will impose neoliberal austerity

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (6 children)

Assuming you mean China and are agreeing with XHS's take on the CPC being neoliberal, it's important to note that all that's been announced is further cooperation with the IMF, and I believe this is more catering towards XHS's tendency to exaggerate doomerism and bloomerism, such as their firm support for Mamdani while denouncing the CPC as falling for neoliberalism even after they announce pivoting more to a consumption based economy than export-focused, like XHS has been clammoring for this whole time.

While it's certainly worth watching the CPC and being wary of the IMF, I have not seen compelling evidence to suggest that the CPC is abandoning socialism or anything. We also know that China's procedural model causes gradual change, from the ground up, and know that there is a leftward shift among the younger generation in China. As these youth enter the CPC, so too will there be a shift in stances held by the CPC, influencing it.

I appreciate XHS's posts from the perspective of having a viewpoint I don't necessarily see as much of, but I think they tend to lean too heavily into doomerism or bloomerism, and that this has a negative impact on their predictions and analysis, I believe.

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[–] Chana@hexbear.net 25 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Liberals cannot tolerate their own racism being censored.

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[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 54 points 3 months ago (2 children)

@Cowbee@hexbear.net catching strays again...

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 62 points 3 months ago

Open Stars has had my accounts blocked for over a year and I still live rent-free

Landlords hate this one simple trick!

landlord-sus

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 51 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Cowbee is like the nicest user on here. Interesting that they smeared him specifically, I guess otherwise people might actually read his posts on their merits and think that socialism is good or something, can't have that.

[–] LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins@hexbear.net 30 points 3 months ago

I'm so mean to these people where's MY recognition

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 50 points 3 months ago (2 children)

cowbee is sea-lioning? michael-laugh

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 34 points 3 months ago

The people that would operation sea lion Greenland accuse the communists of sea lining, what is this 1938?

[–] anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml 29 points 3 months ago (2 children)

As someone who rips on libs all the time, I'm just frustrated that Cowbee gets all the ire 😤

It's probably because Cowbee cites sources and does research, whereas I'm just like "eat shit".

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 40 points 3 months ago (9 children)

As comrade @RedSturgeon@hexbear.net said, what makes them most frustrated is simply not falling for their provocations. They can easily dismiss hostile and agressive actions mentally, but what truly gets under their skin is remaining reasonable and calm about it, as though their own provocations have no impact on you.

I try not to take cheap rhetorical wins either, taking their arguments at the most charitable and debunking them anyways, as that's more effective.

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[+] RedSturgeon@hexbear.net 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 31 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The thing is, they don't think they're lying. They think that if we were telling them the truth, this information would inevitably permeate the highest echelons of institutional media and academia. They operate under an epistemological framework where these institutions are cornerstone of reality, and any fact or historical occurrence they haven't acknowledged is suspect.

The idea that powerful ideologues of American imperialism like Alan Dershowitz and Larry Summers can wield their high positions at an institution like Harvard University to skew the trajectory of academics doesn't even enter their minds. They barely grasp the idea that there's a reason why people like Jeff Bezos would buy the Washington Post.

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[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 24 points 3 months ago (6 children)

They might even genuinely believe Cowbee is a paid agent of CPC, because they can't think anyone would willingly spend so much effort into research and education, without being paid for it.

I've seen this accusation a few times, actually. Usually among those that can tell that I do know what I'm talking about for the most part, and that I do believe it as well. As cool as that would be, though, I'm not a CPC agent.

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[–] axont@hexbear.net 46 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I absolutely love how afraid they are of a single poster who isn't even trolling. Cowbee is just explaining stuff in a Marxist framework and is a prolific poster. But they talk about Cowbee like he's a malign spirit or a virus. They talk about him like he's Howard from the for-profit online university.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 57 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Throwback to my all-time favorite MeanwhileOnGrad comment:

Cowbee isn’t just another tankie. He knows his theory and will use it to dazzle you with bullshit.

[–] inoxerable_doubt@hexbear.net 23 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Like they're so close to getting it, but the ideology is just way too strong (and comfortable) man...

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 18 points 3 months ago

Yep, I just thought it was funny, lol.

[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

specter

[–] ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

At this point we should create a specter version of the medal emoji hero of lemmygrad . For when posters have posted hard enough to haunt the lib's minds.

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[–] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 23 points 3 months ago

A spectre is haunting Lemmy.

[–] The_Filthy_Commie@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 3 months ago

But they talk about Cowbee like he’s a malign spirit or a virus.

Cowbee has become Sigma from Mega Man X.

[–] KuroXppi@hexbear.net 44 points 3 months ago

I do not think that all or even most Threadiverse instances should defederate from lemmy.ml, but on the other hand it would be extremely nice if just ONE instance would do so, which we could then share to people on Reddit as a nicer entry point for those more centrist-leaning users who are primarily people from the USA.

Won't someone PLEASE think of the North American centrists

[–] techpeakedin1991@lemmy.ml 44 points 3 months ago

sea-lioning

How dare Cowbee not let me make up random shit without any evidence!

[–] Beaver@hexbear.net 37 points 3 months ago

Stuff like this is why I don't venture onto the wider fediverse for the most part (just a couple specific communities outside of Hexbear that I'm subbed to). It's just weird to see how much some people seeth over the tankie triad.

[–] GenderIsOpSec@hexbear.net 35 points 3 months ago

rent-free in .worlders heads classic

[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 35 points 3 months ago

A spectre is haunting Lemmy, the spectre of Cowbee.

[–] arcticx@lemmy.ml 34 points 3 months ago

There’s a weird phenomenon I have seen on the fediverse where posters complain about people responding to them with (usually minor) criticism as if their posts are personal property or something. It’s very bizarre behavior. If you’re throwing your opinion out into the void, others can and will respond. Often any pushback must mean you’re either MAGA or a foreign spy to these posters.

And it’s not like replies are always debate attempts either. Often when I respond to something it’s because I want the next guy thumbing through the thread to see a rebuttal or re-contextualization of the conversation because I know how much my view of the world has been influenced by random comments on the internet.

Personally I think lemmy is really cool and reminds me of a less shitty internet where there is more than a single allowed opinion per site/subreddit/platform. The calls for defederation just perpetuates the shitty internet we have now imo.

[–] gramxi@hexbear.net 31 points 3 months ago (1 children)

brevity is the soul of wit, and OpenStars is the probably the wordiest mf on the fediverse

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