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Disrespect women and make life a dystopian hellscape….no children for you
since 1980, the number of enrolled students decreased from 9.9 million to 5.07 million.
That's half the student in 45 years!
Korea’s birthrate ― the lowest in the world with the total fertility rate remaining below 0.8
Meaning it's getting even worse!!
These numbers are insane, I've heard that South Korea is working like crazy to make robots that can help lift the burden of taking care of the elderly. But I wasn't aware it was this bad!!
They have the lowest birth rates in the world, beating Japan by some margin. Since most of the world is heading that direction, is important to watch how these countries handle the issue, so we can prepare better
I think it has a very simple explanation, but I doubt many people will agree with me.
I think it proves that humans simply do not have an inherent urge to procreate. Humans have the urge to have sex, sure, and for a long time having sex carried the consequence of having children, but they are not the same thing. When people are able to survive without children and have the CHOICE to not have children, many simply don't want to.
In the past people needed many children, because many of them died before adulthood, and they needed the rest to take care of them in old age. Women didn't have the right to say no and many needed husbands to provide for them, since they couldn't own their own property or even have jobs. When men wanted sex, women had to comply and without birth control they automatically got pregnant, whether they wanted to or not.
I think not having the option to choose, people had children because.. that's just the way it was.
Now people have a choice. And we see what choices they make.
I'm sure many people are going to argue that it is too expensive to have kids, but let's be honest here. Most humans on earth today are orders of magnitude more prosperous than 400 years ago, for example. If people really wanted kids, they'd have them.
Many people simply don't want kids and maybe it's time we finally acknowledge it.
There are only a few groups of people who still have lots of children: the very poor in underdeveloped countries and the very religious. And note that in many of these cases people don't really have a choice.
People who want to have kids don't have money, and people who don't want, do have money.
Or people just can't afford to have them. Or they don't have reliable access to childcare. Or they are too afraid of the future to subject chuldren to whatever is coming. Or any number of social issue that could be fixed.
Housing used to be cheap enough that you could just have enough to have a family and without worrying about space, now housing yourself is a burden because we're forced to subsidize the lifestyles of the super rich
But poor people used to have plenty of kids. And it's not like every child had a bright and happy future full of hope and certainty hundreds of years ago, what with wars, plagues, famines and whatever else. Terrible infant and maternal mortality rates. People still had kids. Because they kinda sorta didn't have a choice. Now they do.
Poor people are still poor. The world is still fucked up. Humans are still hating and murdering each other over bullshit. The specific situations may be different but it's pretty much the same shit. The difference is choice.
Edit: I am not saying that cost matters not at all, for everyone, but if it was really about cost then rich people would have more children than poor people and they most definitely don't.
Fucking nailed it.
SK is not going to be a good example because, in addition to the usual reasons for a declining birth rate, they also have some pretty extreme racism, sexism, and a work culture that even worse than Japan in many ways. Why would you want to have kids in South Korea‽
Let's say you do have a wife and kids... Good luck getting home to see them on time on the regular!
What's incredible is that the government's stance on this situation is that it is preserving their culture. What they really mean is that they're keeping out foreigners and not cross-breeding with the riffraff (which is... The rest of the world).
They will "preserve" themselves right into extinction.
I think that there will be a revolution that completely upsets things like work life balance and housing costs and whatnot and only after the economy suffers a severe depression from the population this match, forcing the issue against their will
There's a reputation amongst the air force that if you're deployed to korea you'll come back married to a local, they really don't want to live in korea
Yeah, if anything they should only be looked to as examples. Then do the exact opposite lol
Most other countries do their best to create environments that are hostile to children, but in a different way.
I basically agree. It's hostile to be one and it's not particularly friendly to afford one either. Half my friend group lives with their parents still because I'm getting a job won't let them afford a place to live, which is an absurd statement but also just true.
And hardline anti immigration.
Japan was the first to have a fertility crisis, but they've slowed the issue a lot. Spain and Italy, for example, now have a lower fertility rate than Japan
I find fertility rate to be such a fascinating topic, because there is no simple explanation, although many people will suggest simple explanations
I've heard it's because of the cost of housing, but Japan fixed their housing crisis decades ago, and South Korea never had much of one, at least not compared to Canada, New Zealand, or the US
I've heard it's about how women are treated culturally, but then why would the fertility rate in places like Norway and Finland be dropping so dramatically?
And I've heard it's a reaction to dystopic late-stage capitalism, but then why is the fertility rate dropping so rapidly in North Korea?
The general explanation of difficult economic conditions doesn't seem to hold up when you look at a place like the Korean peninsula. There was a great famine in North Korea during the '90s - the arduous march - where millions died in only a couple years. The fertility rate remained far higher during that than it is now. South Korea had far worse economic conditions than it has now, but had a far higher fertility rate
My hypothesis is that it's related to some form of pollution. Obviously there are many contributing factors, but it's interesting to me that the lowest birth rates are all in countries around major manufacturing; especially technology manufacturing. South Korea, Taiwan, and China all have the lowest birth rates in the world. Many European countries like Spain and Italy aren't far behind. Both areas have the highest concentration of high-tech manufacturing
It's really simple: kids are a chore. Once you remove the economic and social pressure to have kids most people will opt out of the experience and do more interesting things instead. In developing countries economic pressure exists (kids support parents when they are old) but in developed countries only social pressure is left. Once it becomes socially acceptable not to have kids people just stop. In some countries like France kids are still a status symbol so people try to have 2 kids. In other countries kids are used mostly for socializing: when all your friends become parents it's hard to hang out with them without kids because all gatherings become kid parties. Most couple have one kid because that's enough to be included. But as more people don't have kids it's easier to find friends without kids to do things together and another motivation is gone. There was also a pretty big shift in how people approach childless couples. Asking "when will you have kids" is becoming a faux pas because people are more aware of fertility issues so another source of social pressure is gone. The truth is that even in perfect financial situation few people will have more then 2 kids (just look at the stats). In less than perfect situation people decide to have 1 or 0.
The kinds of fixes that could work are the kind that would be expensive and beneficial to workers, which is why it's not done. The police angle doesn't make much sense because it's not like it's caused by people who are trying and failing to have kids, except for people who only start in the 40s because that's how long it takes to become an economically self-sufficient enough to do so. Any government that wants to replace needs to make having a family-sized home and a decent work life balance readily achievable to any 25-year-old
Possibly some form of 100th monkey effect? Except instead of skill sharing, it’s more emotion based? Most of the world seems to be in a sort of despair, when there is so much despair, maybe it spreads like wildfire whether you realize it or not?
It’s a neoliberal myth that your society needs to constantly be growing..ie there need to be more younger people than older people.
~~worse~~ lower
let's not make value judgements like, i don't like children until they have personalities and mortgages and my wife is an elementary school teacher. it takes all types in this world.
I don't think you understand the problem, because lower is absolutely worse. A small decline in population is fine, the world probably has too many people already. But a steep decline like this is catastrophic for a country.
The fertility rate required to maintain population is around 2.1, having it at only 0.8 is really bad, making the South Korean population basically on a path to extinction within a few hundred years.
dude my degrees are better than your degrees in the subject but try to go off. "a steep decline like this is catastrophic for a country" no it isn't, we want to believe it would be but the only steep population declines we've ever actually seen were from famine, war the like. Just because you read a book with a funny title does not give you an understanding of the choices people voluntarily make and that does not push a country to a cliff.
Okay boomer
Funny then how your previous comment is completely disconnected from the real problem.
I think I'll just block you, because you are too weird for me.
Oh no if only someone under the age of 60 had an idea to fix this and were allowed any amount of wealth or power to fix this.
I'm sure it didnt help that they were trafficking kids out of the country.
Kurzgesagt did a video on how South Korea will probably collapse due to their massively low birth rate.
Soon there will be massive amounts of unemployed elderly, with no one to take care of them.
No there won’t. The reason their birth rates are low is because they are so wealthy.
Low birth rates are sold to us as bad by neoliberals/capitalists because they believe that growth is the only way out of every problem. Unlimited growth is a terrible blunt instrument that’s basically created the unsustainable and unequal monster we live in today in the west.
Fact is that depopulation is the reality of the future and we should keep and eye on South Korea so we can learn from what they do.
How does being wealthy cause low birth rates? Maybe the other way (less population causes concentration of wealth or maybe I'm so busy making money I don't have time to make babies) but I don't see wealth causing low birth.
Are you saying people are thinking "look at this 6 figure bank account, we shouldn't have any children, we just need to increase it to 7"
How does being wealthy cause low birth rates?
Pretty simple actually. When you are impoverished, you need a lot of kids for two main reasons: 1) when you're too poor to develop a health-care system, you have alot of kids so that your society still functions after a few kids die off due to a lack of affordable and accessible health care; and 2) you need a high population to do all the labor needed for you and your tribe to survive.
True, as I think about it, it may be an inverse parabolic function. Low wealth is lots of kids(need help to survive) , sustainable wealth low kids(I can support myself but no more) , high wealth high kids(I'm so great my genes must be passed on and I have the means to do so) ...
This has been a common pattern globally. A lot of other wealthy countries only have stable (desired for economic growth) population numbers/growth only because of large scale immigration. ie. US and Canada. Which countries like South Korea, Japan, or China are still quite strict on.
Doesn't help that child raring has become exceedingly expensive per child as well in wealthy countries.
In a lot of places a parent working is basically pointless if they pay for childcare. A daycare near me was 600 a week. And that was only from 330(after school got out) to 600. If you work 9-5 but school gets out at 330 about 15 dollars per hour of your pay goes to daycare. If you make less than 20 an hour is that even worth working?
On top of that there are expensive academic tutors and extracurricular activities that are seen as necessary in competitive countries.
high wealth high kids
Even the most wealthy have 2 kids on average. Some famous rich people have more but the birth rate among the top 1% is still below replacement level.
Basically