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I feel like at least in Europe a lot of people see marriage as an outdated concept.
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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Men's Liberation
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I like the suggestion that we concern ourselvrs more with the quality of men's internal lives, but I do worry we're still objectifying men as 'the problem'.
Seriously. We can't just call men "the problem". We have to address the problems men are having in their social lives and in dating. Men are not being given a fair shot to bring their best selves.
It'll stop once it stops being a problem. FTA:
He had recently read about a high school creative writing assignment in which boys and girls were asked to imagine a day from the perspective of the opposite sex. While girls wrote detailed essays showing they had already spent significant time thinking about the subject, many boys simply refused to do the exercise or did so resentfully.
I mean, we're not just talking about the ability to communicate (which is important), but the basic ability to empathize. If men (in general) are unwilling to even consider the female point of view, is it any wonder why women have a difficult time dating? This isn't happening in a vacuum; there are real reasons why this is happening.
Think of the structural issues which have caused this to be the case. Blaming men for not achieving an externally defined target isn't going to help anyone.
Hate the game, not the player.
You take one cherry-picked anecdote and then generalize that to the entire population. You are the problem.
You couldn't be more in your own echo chamber. If other men are telling you woman also act the same way as some men and also have issues and you refuse to see another position or point of view you are the problem.
Navigating interpersonal relationships in a time of evolving gender norms and expectations “requires a level of emotional sensitivity that I think some men probably just lack, or they don’t have the experience,” he added.
I like the quote above about this topic but it does still seem like men are the problem. The problem is that we as a society haven't taught those skills and worse yet reinforce the opposite. We should be concerned with men's internal lives and mold them to fit into modern society
There seems to be an assumption here that the lack of marriage rates is solely due to men being unsuitable. I'd like to see sources and data on that.
It takes two to tango, there are communities with higher marriage rates would be interesting research to see what factors differ amongst communities that impact marriage rates.
A big part is diminishing religiosity. There is little point in getting married if you aren't religious. Thanks to progress made by LGBT couples, most of the legal benefits of marriage are shared by domestic partnerships. Traditionalists on the left and the right make a big deal of this, but it is of negligible factual importance.
I don't think most people who get married do it for religious reasons or even to start a family in the US anymore. People do it since they see it a formal a commitment and want to announce their love in public.
That only covers one angle, if people do it for religious reasons, not if they don't do it because of religion. I'm not getting married, and the religious connotations of even a secular wedding is a significant chunk of why.
There's also a million legal reasons to get married... If there weren't, same sex marriage would probably have never made it to the Supreme Court. Everything from insurance coverage, employment benefits, credit rating, child custody, transfer of property following death, medical decisions, and a bunch of other very secular, very important benefits are conferred via legal marriage.
“Ask women what dating is like”. Good idea if you want a biased one sided opinion.
This article is vomit.
Ask a woman what dating is like. You, personally. I dare you.
Only issue is, clearly you won't listen to their answer.
Odd take. You do realize that a relationship is about TWO people right? It’s not all about you. Shocker right?
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Well, considering dating takes at least 2 people (depending on how you live your life, and yes non-monagamy and polyamory are vaild), asking only one group is incredibly biased.
You.... missed the point of the article completely.
Please explain how this isn’t a bigoted point of view
Ms. Kearney, for example, acknowledges that improving men’s economic position, especially men without college degrees, is an important step toward making them more attractive partners.
There is a widespread, socially disruptive, and sometimes life threatening epidemic of unfuckable dudes.
There are challenges with expectations and entitlements on all sides, but the unfuckable dudes are not rising to meet the challenges.
What about all the unfuckable women? Again you look at everything one sided.
Both sexes need to get better. You’re saying that it’s all up to the men. In other words what you’re saying is women don’t have to be responsible for anything, they can act any way they want. A very entitled and selfish attitude.
Did you ever consider that this toxic mentality DRIVES AWAY the good men? Maybe good men want nothing to do with you because of your mentality. That leaves only the toxic men to put up with your bullshit, so that’s all you see.
What about unfuckable women? Do men ever feel threatened by them to the point of feari g for their lives???
You pretend this is one sided but it is literally not the same for women dating as it is for men.
To believe otherwise is incredibly ignorant.
The vast majority of men never consider physical violence against them in a relationship.
The good men arent afraid to admit that men in general need to do a lot better job of respecting women.
You claim: "In other words what you’re saying is women don’t have to be responsible for anything, they can act any way they want. "
No one is saying this. You assumed this. Your assumption is simply incorrect.
This is the definition of a strawman. You're fitting an argument the other person never made.
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They aren't shooting up night clubs, marauding through cities, or lashing out violently out of sexual frustration and a lack of purpose.
Men are doing those things. Look, I get that 'both sides' impulse, but unfuckable women don't pose an existential risk to society, and to be honest, women have to be pretty far gone to qualify as unfuckable.
Angry women aren't as violent or dangerous as angry men, and the social validation most men are cultured to seek through income, physical prowess, and social success is not as accessible as it once was.
When I was little I noticed that all the father's were just absent. It seemed to me then that the role of 'dad' had been demoted to a placeholder and was existentially diminished in terms of meaning and value. This has a deleterious effect on the sense of purpose of many young men, myself included, but it doesn't have to define us.
Women are seizing an opportunity for their own self actualization from the oppressive society we live in to find purpose and meaning. Maybe some more men need to do the same.
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Biggest issue with the article. NO male voices, and it's repeating the same lines I have heard since the mid 00's.
Now I acknowledge that there hasn't been much movement on the dating front, but men are only half the problem, as they are only half the population.
They would change in a hurry as a group if they needed to, but men aren't a monolith and neither are women.
You want men to be better, be better yourself. The article is garbage by saying men need to step up while not talking to them about the issues they face in the dating world. ESPECIALLY if they aren't Hetronormative.
So, men are only a problem because...women are the problem?
Wow.
Fuck's sake, worry about yourself. You want better? Deserve it. Or not, and settle for less. Whatever.
An article that wonders why people aren't getting married says they went out and only asked one side what the problem was. 🤔
Doesn't even seem balanced....
Edit: as a romance favourable aroace, the dating world was a nightmare, even if you do everything "right". Which is why I no longer look to find companionship.
Do better or not, there are garbage people in all genders and the prevailing "men bad" when it comes to dating is just as toxic as what the men are doing.
The article also doesn't suggest any possible solutions.
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