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100% nothing will happen, or they will just get pardoned. USA is done. Kaput. All hail Nazi USA.
Fairly sure the pardons are already filled out and signed preemptively.
They don’t even waste time by having them individually singed. Just copy and paste!
Ooh ooh how bout an autopen!
with fascists, every accusation is an admission
with fascists, every accusation is an admission
Once again, A LITTLE LOUDER FOR THE DOLTS IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM.
When dealing with fascists and Republicans - they are the same but Republicans have less scruples and more money -
"EVERY ACCUSATION IS AN ADMISSION."
It’s fucking comical how many Americans seem to think that the collapse of their entire legal system is just a blip and there’s a “normal” to go back to.
It’s a bit like going to see a magician- if you catch a glimpse of how the trick is done, the spell is broken. There’s no going back. Everyone is now fully aware that accountability only exists because of shared suspension of disbelief that it might not. A new administration doesn’t fix this. Your constitution and legislation has been fully exposed as lacking enforcement measures. There isn’t any coming back from that, regardless of who’s in the big chair.
It's already been collapsed for years though. Normal people don't even get trials anymore. We get outrageously high bail amounts and plea-bargains (forced confessions, that's what they are) so we will spend 2 years in prison instead of 5 awaiting trial.
Want to prove your innocence even if it means spending years in pretrial jail? Guess what? They'll end up dismissing the charges a week before your trial starts because they don't think they'll get a conviction. You're not officially acquitted so the prosecutor's success rate stays high AND you still were imprisoned for years so it's a win-win for them.
This is actually the example they use of an illegal order in the DOD manual.
Page 1117 18.3.2.1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23892053-dod-law-of-war-manual-june-2015-updated-july-2023/
Incredible
Holy moly, all that's left to do is to add a picture of Hegseth and of the exploded boat to illustrate this paragraph. SMH.
This should be top of the thread everywhere this story is mentioned, forever.
Held liable by whom? The President who absolutely would say he agreed with it? The legislature that will talk a good game but fold before doing anything important? The courts who are owned by the parties? Or the police who want this to be SOP, and wouldn't enforce any orders for arrest?
I guess some of these people expect to still be around in a couple years when there is a new administration that might feel like it's a good idea to prosecute people for crimes they committed for trump.
UCMJ is its own system enforced by the military with its own courts. Hegeseth will probably avoid any repercussions, but holding the chain of command responsible for state sponsored murder will send a clear message about obeying illegal orders.
And not doing so sends a different, no less clear, message...
They could be, but they won't.
Won't matter if they're held liable by US law.
We need justice that is not beholden to any king or emperor (or would-be whatever). International courts should rule on this. Because local ones won't do anything.
good. prison for all of them. genocidal nazis all of them. from the leader to the guy who pushed the button.
ILLEGAL ORDERS MUST BE IGNORED.
Just like the Jan 6 hearings, they will drag it out for political points, but have no intention to seek actual charges, institutional change, military reform or anything.
It will just be: "Look at all the evil shit they did! Don't you wish something could be done! Oh well. Also Maduro bad m'kay, drugs bad m'kay, Hamas bad m'kay, we love troops m'kay. Hearing adjourned!"
Spoiler: they won't.
He is a murderer... all of them are.
Y'all mother fuckers ebeying in advance. These assholes will be held accountable. Call your representatives! Don't assume their power is so great because it's not!
That would require the administration's own people to bring those charges.
And I can already tell you the words you're going to hear if this makes it to court. "Unlawful Combatant", a designation we created so we could ignore the rules of war while fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Trump declared the Venezuelan drug cartels to be terrorists. Now they're treating them like we treated the Taliban in Afghanistan.
These guys are literally just waiting for the next outrageous thing to push this one out of the news cycle.
And yeah, we've been doing airstrikes like this for 20 years.
Could.
But won't.
"Respect the chain of command." - Babylon 5 TV show
Same thing Democrats said recently. Same thing Milley said last time Trump put soldiers on streets years ago. Back then Trump also said Milley should be hanged for saying it.
I love B5 and while the show might look a bit dated now the message sure as fuck is not.
… As they should.
… But they won’t.
I worked at Fort Lewis in the RCF (Regional Correctional Facility, aka prison) and we had an Army soldier who got 3 years for 1st degree murder because he mercy killed a combatant after they got covered in white phosphorous. Literally everyone was like "how the fuck do you only get 3 years for first degree murder?" and then when they read his court documents were like "what the fuck, you got screwed and obviously everyone knew it..." They legally determined that at the moment they were no longer fighting back they became non-combatants and to kill a non-combatant instead of rendering aid is murder. Since the judge and jury agreed that it did violate the law, but hoped that if they were ever in that combatant's shoes, they would want someone to do to them what this soldier did, so yeah, guilty, but sentenced to the bare minimum allowed.
I know for 100% fact there is precedent already. But that is rules for thee, not for them, so I highly doubt we'll see anything happen. I'm sure they'll claim they need immunity because they were operating under special rules of engagement or some bullshit, and it will take years and lots of lawyers and in the end it'll drag on until its forgotten about and gets quietly dismissed somewhere.
Could is not news. Ever.
Which means, as the law is being followed in the US right now, only the plebs at the bottom might be held responsible.
What absolute moron would obey that order?
I could see how maybe you could believe there was justification for the initial strike but there can be no justification for killing people who are now defenceless. Although why not just board the vessel and take everyone into custody, why instantly resort to deadly force, did they have information that the people on the boat were heavily armed or otherwise able to threaten a US naval vessel?
I won’t claim to have researched it myself, but I’ve seen about a dozen different people quote the section of military law that talks about illegal orders that are so blatant you don’t need to check or think, they’re illegal, and the example they use is “firing upon the shipwrecked”.
As in, the order to fire upon the shipwrecked should be immediately known to every Navy personnel as blatantly illegal as a precondition of their service.
If you’re performing the example for an illegal order, you’re executing illegal orders.
Edit: and I’m realizing now I responded to the wrong person.
"held liable" means some bad press in 'radical left' media at this point, right?
That's what should happen, but I won't be holding my breath.
50/50 they pardon everyone or Trump uses this opportunity to forcefully retire more generals and get Hegseth out.
Sure, sure, right after we convict Bush, Rice et al., for their war crimes in Iraq.