this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2025
35 points (94.9% liked)

Ask Lemmy

35492 readers
1153 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Recently heard about Rajneeshpuram and it got me wondering

top 33 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] noretus@sopuli.xyz 15 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Individual level, educate yourself and learn compassion:

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/06/27/yanss-236-how-minds-change/

https://www.cnvc.org/

https://www.streetepistemology.com/

https://pastebin.com/ZHhS044M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book because we have a lot of people who really think they know more about things than they do, based purely on social media posts and sensationalized news. "bAn ALl ReLIGIOnS" is such a highschool tier take that speaks to incredibly poor understanding of human culture, society, philosophy and psychology. Religion is just organized and political spirituality. And we need things that spirituality can offer, and materialism (capitalism) has nearly robbed us of it. And spiritual does NOT have to fucking mean believing in some skydaddy, it can just mean being able to STOP and be with all of life, as it is, within any given moment. You can frame it with the awe of quantum fucking mechanics if you want. Go watch Carl Sagan at the very least. Christianity had one fucking job and they couldn't have failed more catastrophically... But I digress... Though understanding the difference between RELIGION and SPIRITUALITY (and what NEEDS spirituality fulfills) would go a long way in guarding against cults.

A lot of the time dealing with cults or cult-like communities requires you to do things that go against your every impulse.

Respect your own boundaries but keep a door open provided your boundaries are respected.

Do not belittle the people in the cult. Do not demonize. I CANNOT emphasize that part enough. If you can't stop yourself, you best avoid these situations because you will only make it worse.

Actively seek to understand what the person is getting out of the cult (usually it's basic social acceptance - which is exactly why vilifying cult members only works in the cult's favor - see MAGA). If they believe they are getting some spiritual need fulfilled, you better have really good understanding of what that need is before you try to talk about it. Read the relevant philosophy and so on. There are no ideas in the world that can't be twisted into a cult rhetoric.

Cults chiefly work by predating on people who feel like they aren't HEARD or SEEN by others. Their experiences are dismissed or straight up ridiculed. This seems to be an impossible pill for some people to swallow and they seem to legitimately think that calling people idiots will surely make them feel bad and get back in the route of sanity Spoilers: it just makes them run right into the welcoming arms of the cult's spokespeople who shower them with (seemingly) unconditional love and validation.

Once the cult is their only social circle, it's basically impossible to extract them. Unless you are willing to see them COMPASSIONATELY as basic humans whose behavior is ultimately dictated by very basic needs for human connection, you will have no hope of reaching them.

Most people make the mistake of thinking that if they can just communicate some very smart and clever narrative to the people in the cult, they will be able to change their minds. But what that tends to accomplish is that you just put the person on the defensive. It's actually even worse if you manage to get through to their intellectual faculty because then you have effectively demolished some faith-based thing that they have but you are offering nothing in return. Instead all they have now is feeling like they are an idiot and YOU know it. But they can still run back to the cult and stick around on principle. So all you did was make them dig their heels in, because now they KNOW all the rest of the world is able to prove that they are stupid and nobody wants to feel that. Basically in the cult they will have all their social contacts, support network, possibly even their financial security. Few people are going to choose feeling stupid, alone and destitute over that.

Unfortunately most people will jump at the chance to tell another person that their beliefs are stupid. And even more so they will jump at the chance to tell another person that they are morally inferior.

[–] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And we need things that spirituality can offer, and materialism (capitalism) has nearly robbed us of it.

No, we don't. Capitalism and materialism are issues. Do not pretend the spiritualism is unproblematic by itself, encouraging pseudoscience. Faith and spiritualistic thinking can and frequently are problematic.

[–] noretus@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

People will always seek to understand the world and find meaning. it’s not something you can dismiss as irrelevant. If the concern is pseudoscience, the answer isn’t rejection but discernment. Buddhist philosophy and cognitive science, for instance, offer frameworks that are both rigorous and open to examination. Worth considering before reducing the conversation to absolutes.

[–] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I didn't dismiss it as irrelevant and I didn't use absolutes. You are glazing the hell out of Buddhists though

[–] noretus@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 days ago

Feel free to criticize nonduality, which is my spiritual view. If you are sufficiently familiar with Buddhism (Zen or Dzogchen), you should have enough information to go on.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 17 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I was raised in a cult like religion and escaped it. I must now coexist with some of its believers or it will inevitably result in my homelessness and death.

The only two ways to combat dogmatic tribalism are either from within by infiltration, gaining trust, and leading, or by stimulating general curiosity and self growth in individuals. As a person grows, they will naturally question dogma.

Dogma is totally blind to all information sources from outside of the tribe. No amount of logic or emotions will override the tribal barriers of this collective dogma. In fact, opposition of any kind is a form of caring and serves to reinforce the tribal validity.

The opposite of both love and hate is indifference. If you are anything but indifferent, you are actually making the tribe and individual's dogma stronger.

You must not care, or openly show resistance. This generally allows you to coexist with the individual outside of their tribal partition. Within this space, you may be able to stimulate a general curiosity that encourages self growth.

No one is able to force another human to learn or grow. Growth only comes from within.

You must also be open to tangibly supporting these people within your personal social support network. The cult's primary authority comes from the mutually exclusive social support network. Even those that are more open to exiting the cult, are unable to do so as long as they are at a major evolutionary disadvantage of abandoning their personal mutually exclusive social support network.

[–] FalseTautology@lemmy.zip 0 points 4 days ago

This is the darkest thing I've read in a very long time. I wish there was some way to help you. Good luck.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Realize that you can't convince someone to leave in the course of a conversation, but that you can make the little crack that opens up years later.

The loss of the guy at the center of a cult of personality can quickly disperse the cult. Very rarely, they're able to transition into a cult of an idea rather than a personality. That's a difficult transition to pull off, and there's usually planning ahead of time.

There's not a lot of quick solutions otherwise.

So... remove the personality.

[–] AstralPath@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Kool-aid has a good track record of handling it.

[–] Fenrisulfir@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

That would be amazing if MAGA pulled a Jonestown

[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

Individual level:

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

Societal level: I have no idea, but I imagine media (movies, tv shows, the news, Tik Tok, etc) all have some influence there. Mostly in bad ways, unfortunately.

[–] FalseTautology@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 days ago

Be the one starting the cult, not the one joining the cult.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

Fuck Facebook, Twitter.

...That's the big one. Folks will always get in cults, but never has it been so supercharged and weaponized by algorithmic machines that will, literally, hook into peoples' brains to make a penny on mis/disinformation: https://www.reuters.com/investigations/meta-is-earning-fortune-deluge-fraudulent-ads-documents-show-2025-11-06/

[–] lung@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

We don't, that's what freedom of religion means. If it gets overly militant or political, then there are already mechanisms that come and raid and disband them, which we have seen many times in the history of America

[–] adhd_traco@piefed.social 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Sorry, hard disagree.

I also don't want to argue. So feel free to say what you like about this, but I won't respond. I'll just drop some thoughts for consideration.

  1. Cults don't have to be religious, and even then there's a difference
  2. Harm doesn't just come from being militant or political
  3. The mechanisms of disbanding suck as much as the criminal justice system and states in general do
  4. This isn't just about the US

Jehovas Witnesses, Moonies, Scientology and so many more are still ongoing. Cult mechanism are literally some of closest stuff to brainwashing there is. They are malign. The followers are victims, and collectively this absolutely should be addressed.

Also, I am not offering any kind of solution here, I.e. to just go after the cults and disband them. As others have said it's nuanced.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

FWIW, being an ex-JW, I've very rarely heard any other ex-JW suggest banning them outright. Besides moral concerns, nobody really thinks it would work. By all means, come down on them for specific crimes (like hiding pedophiles), but blanket bans are a no.

[–] s@piefed.world 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

What about in the case of the aforementioned Rajneeshpuram (prior to the mass food poisoning) where they politically overtook a town and armed themselves? They effectively seized the mechanisms you mentioned on a local level, and it wasn’t until people got directly and clearly hurt by them that a larger governing body interfered in a way which did eliminate their presence.

[–] lung@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, the situation got resolved when harm came in. You gotta commit an actual crime to be punished right? I'm familiar with the documentary and actually have friends who continue to be followers of Osho's teachings. It's not all bad, there was a lot of very good outcomes for some people's health and wellness there too, the documentary frames it as a situation where the second in command basically drugged him and became an egomaniac. Shit happens. When evaluating cults, which are basically just small religions, the best criteria is about how much they help their constituents and community vs how much do they demand from them. It's worth noting that many of the cults of America's past were more Christian branded and became gigantic, with some mix of outcomes. But the alternative of not allowing people to express the freedoms of religion and speech would be much worse in my opinion

[–] s@piefed.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, the situation got resolved when harm came in. You gotta commit an actual crime to be punished right?

I was meaning more so addressing the beliefs in absurdities before they result in committing atrocities, to paraphrase Voltaire.

[–] lung@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah you can't do a thought police

[–] s@piefed.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I can’t do a thought police, but that is categorically what cults do. It’s not thought policing to advise people to be wary of thought policing or to promote scientific literacy and empathy.

[–] lung@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Yeah sure you can do that but people won't listen. What I mean by thought police is actually doing policing, like "no you can't say that or we will arrest you" which goes against the idea of freedom of speech. It's reminiscent of when ussr was jailing karate teachers

[–] yesman@lemmy.world -2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

It's a myth that "anyone" can get wrapped up in a cult. Their are many "filters" to joining a cult. Such as unusual dress, complicated social hierarchies, and tons of jargon. And they hit you with this stuff right up front; it's not gradual. People who are not looking for community and meaning will be repelled.

So they're filtering people who are not in a particularly credulous mental state. People who are not in a "joining" mentality. I'm not saying that educated, sophisticated, and intelligent people are immune. This all has to do with adjustment, maturity, and emotional stability.

So anyway, to mitigate the reach of cults, society should be organized to minimize alienation and isolation, while a multitude of sources of community and meaning should be encouraged. Check on the people you care about and make sure they're getting on. Crush capitalism.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 4 days ago

Anyone can get wrapped up in a cult, because just about everyone goes through a phase in their life when they would be primed for that mindset. Such as loss of a job with nowhere to go, or loss of a loved one.

[–] nymnympseudonym@piefed.social 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

It’s a myth that “anyone” can get wrapped up in a cult [...] unusual dress, complicated social hierarchies, and tons of jargon

Red hats? Is MTG "in-group" sill? What is "Groyper"?

As of March 2025, about 36% of registered voters identified as MAGA.

Don't pretend for a second this can't happen to otherwise intelligent, educated people that you know. It can. It probably has. Those people are credulous, not stupid, and they found an identity.

This is a real and existential problem. Don't minimize it.