I think the main advantage is that if a state actor wants to Pegasus you, they can always get into a normal iOS/Android device until the next reboot. It's not feasible, even with the resources of the Israeli state that Pegasus can support ALL models of random dumbphone that has ever existed, so there is a fair chance that while the security may not be modern on an old Nokia, they would need to burn 1000 development hours to deploy bugging malware into it that already "just works" with iOS and Android.

If you have to connect to an intermediary to make a call, you can be heard and traced. GPRS is only marginally better if you and the one you call are on the same uncommon frequency

I think you're conflating security with privacy. Not that they are unrelated, but something can be e.g. unencrypted but lack telemetry.

Not that dumbphones are inherently private, but I don't think they're less private either. They're just what you use if you have no need for all the smartphone functions.

It's not about having a device that's secure, it's about having a device that you use less, to the point that it's not much of an attack surface for surveillance capitalism or (possibly) hostile governments.

It's much harder to profile someone if they aren't fed a steady stream of what you say and what you click upon.

I would argue that phone that a phone that runs Android is not a dumb phone. Not having a Google account logged into your phone is a huge step towards privacy.

See:

• Mudita Kompakt
• Punkt MP02
• etc.

Also don't fall into the trap that privacy is a binary issue. There's a massive spectrum.

I can't speak for everyone, but if I'm using a dumb phone, I'm not going to be doing any of the things that I'm worried about them hearing.

If ICE grabs my phone right now and beats me until I lock it. They're going to be looking through my lemmy history.

I'm not going to hold a long political dissertation over SMS or during a phone call.

What I really want to at this point is a pager, a cellular Wi-Fi access point, and an 8" tablet that can run Linux and sip power so I can just pretend I don't have a device.

As others have mentioned, this is a matter of threat model. To be realistic, a sufficiently determined government will always be able to access your communications, but companies like Facebook and Google can only access them if you give it to them willingly. On the other hand, if other people you communicate with do this by themselves, then you've gone through all that effort for nothing. It's also worth pointing out that it cannot be proven that a regular phone does not have corporate spyware installed, so this may be another way your information could leak to companies.

That said, it is pretty insulting that tech companies have decided that they're simply entitled to everyone's private communication data. That for me is probably the biggest motivator in trying to avoid their services as much as possible.

You can make a smartphone (more) private, but out of the box and loaded with standard apps (eg Google), its a privacy nightmare. So I get where they are coming from. Sure using SMS isn't private, but dropping all that app addiction is.

You are conflating privacy and security. They're not unrelated, but generally speaking while a dumphone may be less secure than a smartphone, it's also certainly more private.

With dumbphones, you’re usually limited to regular phone calls or SMS/MMS messaging.

That's kind of the point.

Sure, you can't do much with them, but by that very fact you also won't have nearly as much data to be spied on.

Likewise, you can do much more with a smartphone, but that comes with a much higher surface of attack, and you also have to work a lot harder to keep all the data away from spying.

If you're willing to live with a dumb phone, you're willing to live with a Linux phone (Or an open ROM without Google apps). AFAIK they can call and text just fine without installing anything else so any Linux apps you like are just a bonus.

I guess the idea is that you wont be able to do a lon with a dumbphone, so it's basically a paperweight that sometimes receives calls and with too much luck, an SMS. You have a tool for emergencies or specific events, but you don't have your life on it, so you keep most of your privacy from ever reaching it. That's my take, at least.

Exactly, taking away tools which enable you to enhance your digital privacy, or the ability to use such tools, is fundamentally a flawed way to enhance your privacy in the long term.

Same for security with rooting, and it's the same reason why the argument that "rooting makes your phone less secure" is a fundamentally flawed argument.

I figured that the point of using a dumb phone would be that there hopefully wouldn't be meaningful accounts, information, and communication to really get at. Regular calls and SMS were already fair game, and there is basically nothing else on there. Nothing for evil megacorps to siphon up, no social media, not much of anything.

I always thought people used the term "dumbphone" to refer to old-fashioned devices that are just a phone and don't run any OS.

Your ISP can read any text message you send and view metadata logs of any phone calls you make. In lots of places (like Australia where I live) ISPs are actually required to keep logs of your messages and phone calls

Why would my Internet Service Provider have anything whatsoever to do with my dumb phone?

Yes, texts and calls aren't hidden from your mobile phone provider, they never were. I agree it's not great, and the government is likely spying on you as they have been for decades.

But alas, I don't see a solution without using a non dumb phone and encrypted apps, which will require the internet and at that point you've not got a dumb phone any more.

My Nokia 3310 still works great. Sure, the government could spy on me, but I don't discuss anything sensitive over the phone (traditionally one doesn't, for this very reason, wiretaps and the like). It's a tool for casually staying in touch and arranging to meet up ^_^

Nice thing is, usually the dumb phones have removable batteries. So just remove the battery when you're not using it. Problem solved.

GrapheneOS or nothing. We have to support them whenever we can more than ever. The battle against mass surveillance will become increasingly difficult. Many countries are heading towards neo-fascism and will use all state power to end privacy at all costs