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The only way to defeat us is if the Trump administration and the movement that undergirds it manages to divide us. We can’t let that happen. To win as a majority coalition, we must always invite everybody who believes in civil liberties and human rights.
Agreed. The purity testing and splintering into to niche issues is what always screws the left.
If people could just focus and align on some core root cause issues, like getting corrupt money out of politics, the message would be stronger.
All well and good, but what happens when someone comes to the meeting and says "we should end corruption and remove Trump, but I don't like DEI policies."
I'm guessing that will suddenly be added to the "root" cause and we're right back into splintering and purity spirals again.
I'm guessing that will suddenly be added to the "root" cause
Hopefully yes, because that's exactly what it is. You can't fight fascism with fascism lite.
If everything is "root" then nothing is.
You... you think racism and xenophobia aren't a root cause of this? If so, you should read a history book. Start from Nixon.
And here we go, a disagreement over policy balloons instantly into "racism and xenophobia" and an ally gets kicked out of the meeting because everything is black or white and no compromise is possible.
I find DEI policies to be a complicated topic, personally. I don't oppose the basic idea and motive behind them, but I think they've been implemented poorly and often turn into discrimination in their own right. Am I now classed as "Trump supporter" in your eyes? I've been called a Trump supporter because I don't like the recent Star Wars movies, so I'm sure a lot of people would indeed lump me in with him on that basis. And thus is proven the basic point about how Trump's opponents are destroying themselves without Trump's supporters having to lift a finger.
And here we go, a disagreement over policy balloons instantly into "racism and xenophobia"
Oh, so you're saying you personally don't like DEI policies. In that case I'm not necessarily calling you racist and xenophobic, but your seeming willingness to accept the results of past racism and xenophobia is definitely concerning. If I was running the meeting you wouldn't get kicked out, but your "can we not include DEI in our platform" would be met with an uncompromising "no." Before I explain why, do you understand the concepts of systemic racism and generational wealth?
but I think they've been implemented poorly and often turn into discrimination in their own right.
You need such "discrimination" to undo the results of past discrimination. For example, did you know that despite being only ~0.7% of the population, Native Americans make up about 24% of the poverty population of the US? Is this not injustice? How do you rectify it without affirmative action (aka DEI)?
I honestly don't think dei did shit one way or another and was all just a show. That being said I agree. Lets all get behind the constitution including all the bill of rights and argue about the other things once we have enough rights to do so in a civilized manner.
@FaceDeer @just_another_person @simplejack
"I'm a huge racist, but I don't like Trump. Can I join your group?"
No.
That person should go find a "Racists Against Trump" group.
We could have done that last November, but some people decided it was better to single-issue abstain / protest vote / spread FUD / otherwise get in the way. Yes, I'm still salty about that.
I’m a salt mine over this. And now that they have full power, because fucking snowflakes couldn’t even bother to vote on the local and state level, they will not give up that power. People are dying, poor families with disabled children are losing healthcare, trans people are under federal attack, science and education is being gutted, and on and on, because of political edge lords.
There won’t be another chance. Vote next time or don’t, it won’t matter because fascists aren’t going to just say ‘welp, I guess I’ve been voted out now’. Like we were saying, 2024 was the last free election if they won. But they couldn’t be bothered.
Add some potatoes to me, I’m done.
I’m a salt mine over this.
I like that expression.
People are dying, poor families with disabled children are losing healthcare, trans people are under federal attack, science and education is being gutted, and on and on
According to the people we're both salty at, that's apparently an acceptable price to pay to "teach the Dems a lesson". (That was one of the most common reasons they'd give last year, and yep, I'm still salty about that too).
But at least they saved Palestine ¯_(ツ)_/¯
And the lesson the DNC learned was "try harder to appeal to fascists"
You know, like we said they would because that's been their reaction each time they've lost over the last forty years
People didn't learn from the "Bernie Bros" who told people not to vote for Clinton in 2016.
Two things I always point out.
Frederick Douglas worked for Lincoln in 1860, despite the fact that Lincoln was not an abolition candidate. At best he was willing to consider it. Douglas could have backed a full on abolitionsit, but he decided it was better to win with a poor candidate than to lose with a perfect one.
Second, MLK had a gay second in command. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin]
Rustin and King knew that 1960s America wasn't ready for a gay rights movement, so they kept Rustin in the background.
Please stop repeating this myth. 80% of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in 2016. This was up to 10% higher than the percentage of Clinton supporters who voted for Barack Obama in 2008.
Exactly.
Hillary lost because she was an unpopular candidate who represented The Establishment™ against an anti-establishment buffoon and then proceeded to botch her campaign, fucking around in Michigan (and then blowing the campaign.)
things like telling the SEIU not to focus on Michigan to "fool" trump into competing in Iowa.
Rustin and King knew that 1960s America wasn’t ready for a gay rights movement, so they kept Rustin in the background.
Though it is worth pointing out MLK's movement continued to expand to other groups, was more of a pro-socialist push near the end and probably would have kept going, had he not gotten shot.
Left unity doesn't include right wingers who are willing to throw away and entire election because they won't stop supporting Israel. If you wanna win an election, try actually appealing to the left instead of obstinately moving farther and farther right along with the party you unconditionally support
I voted for Kamala btw, so don't bother trying that angle. And I will never, for any reason, support newsom and his anti trans, anti homeless, fascist platforming ass. If you're already supporting him, you're exactly why Kamala lost, and why he'll lose in 2028
As you should be. Here we are.
You know what really has to happen. Just nobody has the guts to do it.
It will take more than that. There is a lot of rot.
oh 10 or 15 ought to do it. The rest are cowards and will have always been agaisnt maga.
With a baseball bat?
I was going to say rusty rebar
Well if he gets tetanus, he'd finally have to shut the fuck up.
I can't believe we're not even one year into this yet.
The Heritage Foundation is a cancer. It has to be irradiated, then cut out.
I think the biggest problem American politics has is only going to be fixed my overturning Citizens United
To be fair, quite a few have been. Theyr targeting each other
With clubs, in a large group, Caesar-style, so nobody knows which of us did it?
The only way to defeat us is if the Trump administration and the movement that undergirds it manages to divide us. We can’t let that happen. To win as a majority coalition, we must always invite everybody who believes in civil liberties and human rights.
Sooooo we're defeated? 1/3 of the population voted for this and is actively cheering it on, 1/3 don't give enough of a shit to take action for whatever reason, and the last 1/3 are the target of the first 1/3.
How the fuck are we supposed to band together and "invite everybody that believes in civil liberties and human rights" when half of the country is either championing or passively allowing the stripping away of those rights? This would require the right wing to fundamentally shift their views on immigrants and gay people, which they obviously have no interest in doing.
All that was needed to defeat Hitler was to make the Nazis see Jews as people.
That's pretty much what's being said here. Can we please be realistic and not pretend that both sides are equal and valid in their rationale and behavior? If someone starts punching every gay person around them, you don't tell the gay people to be more cooperative and understanding, you arrest the fucker and punish them.
🔫
That's not the only way.
Hopefully the military decide to end the clown show after that insanity earlier today
If there were only some laws that would protect us or maybe a document outlining who we are as a people. Dammit! /s