I hate this car-centric society, but let’s be real cars aren’t going anywhere. Moving away from fossil fuels is a good thing. Not sure why we’re criticizing progress here.
Fuck Cars
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
It's because on the modern internet, everyone is all-or-nothing when it comes to their chosen issue. Nuance has become unacceptable.
This community in particular can get a little out of touch at times. In North America in particular, even if every level of government agreed to begin working towards a car free society immediately, we'd still be facing a decades long construction campaign as entire towns and cities would have to be restructured. In the meantime, a shift to electric vehicles is something that can drastically help the global warming issue, and can be implemented in less than a decade.
In reality, we should be shifting to electric cars in the sort term, while we work towards eliminating the need for them in the long term.
Also, I'm convinced that the brake dust/tire wear particulates talking point is the result of oil industry astroturfing. The brake dust thing especially is actually better on electric cars, since regenerative braking reduces the amount of brake wear.
Higher weight and higher torque means tires wear faster on EVs. That’s physics, and the theory is backed up by real world evidence.
The flatter torque curve (peak torque on electric cars is usually very comparable to ICE) is irrelevant, unless you are a shitty driver who treats the gas pedal like a two position switch.
Its because EVs are being marketed as a green solution, not a stepping stone. If a car must exist it might as well be electric but we should be asking how do we reduce the cars that exist and their frequency of use. Building electrified transit and keeping ICE cars would as a whole be more beneficial than just converting all cars to EVs.
Building electrified transit and keeping ICE cars would as a whole be more beneficial than just converting all cars to EVs.
This choice you've presented is extremely misleading. The build out of electrified public transportation and the shift from ICE to EV cars are not in any way related choices. If the government chooses to build more public transportation, that has no effect on whether or not EVs replace ICE cars.
The government building transit would effect the number of people who need to rely on a car.
Which is good, but still has nothing to do with what the remaining cars are powered by. There's no reason why it has to be "transit+ICE" instead of "transit+EV".
My point is that we should be making the most impactful changes we can to fight climate change and environmental destruction, which means subsidies, government investments, and tax breaks are better spent on transit, density, or active transport than on EV infrastructure/incentives
And the most impactful change I can make is purchasing an EV.
Since I already vote for officials who support all of those issues there is no impactful change because the alignment is already there.
There are locally impactful actions that I can participate in but none that will have the same impact as my personal choices.
The most impactful choices I could make are all illegal. The majority of them being some form of demestic terrorism.
Because it's progress that needed to happen 30 years ago. While we've been transitioning to electric cars, progress also needed to happen on every other issue but it doesn't happen because we're all in on electric cars instead of doing something about car dependency as a whole. It's not moving forward, it's moving sideways.
Speaking from the US, we’re clearly not yet all in on EVs and we just killed funding for transit and intercity rail. And they’re trying to remove fuel efficiency standards altogether. We are 30 years ago and regressing fast.
Transit and intercity rail are receding into some future utopian fever dream but some of us can still choose EVs
Moving away from fossil fuels is a good thing.
Yes, but not if it promotes destructive behaviours such as increased car dependency.
EVs are like low-calorie sweeteners: they do nothing to stop obesity, and actually encourage more eating (and more obesity).
Cars will always have their place. However, that place doesn’t need to be “everywhere”.
Electric vehicles
- eliminate tailpipe emissions
- cut brake dust emissions in half
- pollute less as we transition to renewable energy
- let us work toward elimination the huge polluting industries for gasoline refining and distribution
- let us shrink the huge polluting industries of oil extraction and refining
- are a huge step toward slowing the growth of climate change.
While I completely agree transit, and walkable cities are much better, EVs are not nothing. More importantly, given the amount of time to build transit and walkable cities, EVs get us many of the advantages NOW
Yeah, this comic is putting perfect in the way of good.
Not to mention, there are people who do need vehicles, the trades being one example.
They also increase tyre wear particles due to their greater weight and torque
This, to me, just seems like it's trying to give permissions to ICE car owners not to change anything.
It definitely is not that. However, it is a reminder that, even with electric vehicles, there is a serious, environmental and social impact.
This, to me, shows cars are more damaging than what just comes out of their tail pipes. Maybe the illustration could have included impacts of cycling and transit to help illustrate the point it is trying to make by comparing the impacts.
I think that would have made a huge difference... just showcase how literally none of these concerns are relevant with a bicycle.
They don't need permission. They won't change anything unless their material conditions make it likely for them to change. That is lower EV prices, lower maintenance, better utility, good public transit, etc. They would buy a RAM 1500 if they wanted to whether they saw this meme or not. It's unlikely that someone was sitting thinking whether to go with an EV or ICE, sees this meme and goes like - nah fuck that, I'm getting a gas guzzler. Meanwhile the ones that are active in the spaces that advocate for car alternatives had a bit of fun reading it, and got a small boost in motivation to keep pestering our politicians to expand transit.
Car culture evangelist in fuckcars community missing the point as always.
The point is that EVs are not a good solution to the problem with cars - they are just a better car. This individualizes what is a collective problem.
My city is adding six new lanes for cars in the coming years, meanwhile there are already intersections that a person has to jog to get across in time. Cars have their use, but it's far far far less than people realise.
Valorizing EVs leads to perpetuating car centric designs, which is a negative across many dimensions - not only ecologically.
All that being said, better car is still better than a worse car. I live near a big road, and it kinda sucks. Back then when all cars were emitting poison from a tailpipe instead of only some doing it, it didn't just suck, it was a fucking nightmarish hell, dirty, loud, smelly, poisonous dark hell, and some people from my family died prematurely because of that.
I don't think the community in my city can persuade carbrains to quit caring any time soon. They can convince them to start with being slightly less damaging, for starters.
Yes, a better car is a better car. That's perfectly reasonable harm reduction logic.
I just would rather people not forget that that's all it is, and know that there are much better communal solutions. Even if they seem utopian, they're actually very sensible and pragmatic.
Materially speaking, we could start building a better world tomorrow morning. We don't have to wait for tech to save us.
Ah, well if an improvement isn't perfect, we should definitely reject it and continue using the worst possible version until a perfect one is created
Electric cars also reduce particulate dust. Because of regenerative braking they need to brake less often and less agressive. There was a study published just kadt week.
Also noise pollution. Under 35 mph, most car noise is engine noise.
So much this. Car noise is a huge problem.
It doesn't solve all the problems, so instead, let's solve none of the problems!
Get an electric car if you want, but you should still support society moving away from needing them in the first place, no?
Imagine a school cafeteria is serving kids the option of 5 hershey's chocolate bars, or a slice of pizza. You can acknowledge the pizza is better, but you should still be asking where the god damn vegetables are.
A report from the Pew Charitable Trust found that 78 percent of ocean microplastics are from synthetic tire rubber. These toxic particles often end up ingested by marine animals, where they can cause neurological effects, behavioral changes, and abnormal growth.
Meanwhile, British firm Emissions Analytics spent three years studying tires. The group found that a single car’s four tires collectively release 1 trillion “ultrafine” particles for every single kilometer (0.6 miles) driven. These particles, under 100 nanometers in size, are so tiny that they can pass directly through the lungs and into the blood. They can even cross the body’s blood-brain barrier. The Imperial College London has also studied the issue, noting that “There is emerging evidence that tire wear particles and other particulate matter may contribute to a range of negative health impacts including heart, lung, developmental, reproductive, and cancer outcomes.”
Cool beans, I've got "Tire Brain".
Had the right idea but lost me at the end. Better is better. We can both electrify and work to move away from automobiles at the same time. We should not divide a group of people with common interest in a better tomorrow. To do so is how we lose.
On one hand, I like that EVs are leaps and bounds above gas guzzlers. On the other, it does still reinforce our current car culture.
Most of the fuckwads in this comment section missed the point of the post
Electric cars are the best solution available for people who live in car centric areas and can't afford to build their own train line.
We should also be trying to get walkable neighborhoods and adequate public transport, but I will very rarely tell someone not to replace their car with electric. It really is much better than the available alternatives.
i have an electric car and electric bicycle (american; suburb - forced car use). having an electric car is so much better than my old regular one not only because of emissions, but i have solar panels at home. free "gas" and never having to go to a gas station is super underrated.
i bike ~90% of the time, anyways, but its nice to never have to do any of that stuff. the car is 2.5 years old and it has ~7.5k miles on it... most of which was my wife driving my car when hers broke, heh.
This cartoon is almost easy to mistake for satire making fun of the anti-car people.
Y'all have to face the reality that cars are not going away. The roads will outlast every human being that reads these words. People will continue to travel on those roads in vehicles of some kind. EVs are the best option we have yet for making the roads' usage have less environmental impact.
You do realize those roads are only driveable because of extensive maintaince. If we stopped maintaining a specific road and built tracks instead, many people would choose the tram/train as the road would be too rough to travel at any decent speed after a few years. The infrastructure we build and maintain directly impact the mode people use. And currently many places exclussively build and maintain roads, often not even including the option of a sidewalk.