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[-] shiroininja@lemmy.world 333 points 1 year ago

Is it real antisemitism or just not supporting Israel?

About when they start going on about “Zionists” Is where I draw the line and where it typically takes a turn.

As a Jewish person, I find it healthy to criticize the Israeli government. Most young Israelis do. Their government has been steamrolled by a wannabe dictator that is corrupt as hell and his team of racist, backwards conservative orthodox buddies.

They were just protesting in the streets weeks ago and now we’re expected to turn around and support the government? Nah. This doesn’t change anything.

[-] Taleya@aussie.zone 76 points 1 year ago

The problem is a lot of people don't differentiate between the israeli government and the israeli people as a whole - i've seen some straight up 'they had it coming' style bullshit that is verrry careful to place Good Jews and Bad Jews (the festival goers) to try and get a pass on antisemitsm and maaaan it is transparent as fuck.

[-] nottheengineer@feddit.de 27 points 1 year ago

But that's how politics work nowadays. You need to assume that every group is homogenous and when someone from that group points out that it isn't, you call them a hypocrite.

[-] MissJinx@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

No child is to blame about any of this. And when I think about this (i'm sorry) very stupid conflict, all I can think is people killing children because of land. FUCKING DIRT. Not a specific people, just people, humans, killing children becuase a piece o land, that to be fair it fits everyone! That is of a stupidity that I can not fathom

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[-] WhaleScenery@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I must admit, it’s quite refreshing to hear a critical take on the Israeli government from a Jewish person. I don’t know if it’s due to the news sources and forums I typically frequent (e.g. BBC, Guardian, etc), but I feel like it’s quite rare to hear an opinion from someone who actually lives there or who practices the religion.

It’s also quite reassuring (as a fairly ignorant outside observer who is only beginning to learn the tiniest bit about the complex and bloody history of this region) to hear that not every Jewish person or every Israeli likes the way that the state is developing.

Edit: I made some language changes because upon re-reading the parent comment I realised that the poster didn’t actually say whether they lived in Israel or not and I had made a faulty assumption.

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[-] Jaderick@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You cannot separate Zionism from the formation of the state of Israel and how the history of the conflict has been shaped since.

In order to obtain a more holistic perspective of the conflict people need to know about Zionism, it’s history, and how it currently affects Israeli leadership.

There are still people alive on both sides that lived through Zionist conflicts with the British Mandate and the Nakba.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

https://uca.edu/politicalscience/home/research-projects/dadm-project/middle-eastnorth-africapersian-gulf-region/british-palestine-1917-1948/

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/11/702264118/netanyahu-says-israel-is-nation-state-of-the-jewish-people-and-them-alone

[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

Literally kicked Bibi out, and he got back into power. It's crazy.

[-] dumdum666@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago

Many of the Comments I had to read on Lemmy.ml were like „Israelian Civilians deserved that Terror attack“ so make of that what you like.

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 166 points 1 year ago

Israelis and people of Jewish faith are fine and nice people. Netanyahu's government is a monster with genocidal ideas. Some people go along with these terrible ideas.

Palestinians and people of Muslim faith are fine and nice people. Hamas leadership are monsters with genocidal ideas. Some people go along with these terrible ideas.

[-] HRDS_654@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

This is probably the only time I will agree with the "both sides" take on this. My view on this is that it doesn't mean I agree with killing innocents though. People at the top doing terrible things is no reason to condemn a whole people who very likely had little say in the matter.

[-] Serinus@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago

If there's one issue, ever, that you should be at least a little "both sides" on, it's this one.

There's no way you can honestly argue only one side of this.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 124 points 1 year ago

I'm a Jew and pretty sensitive to antisemitism, even dogwhistles. I admit I don't go to lemmy.ml very often, but from what I've seen from lemmy.ml posters posting on lemmy.world, there's been no antisemitism at all. In fact, I have not seen any antisemitism from anyone here that I can recall, which is pretty amazing in and of itself.

Opposition to Israel's genocidal regime is not antisemitism.

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[-] dangblingus@lemmy.world 117 points 1 year ago

Criticizing. Israel. Is. Not. Anti-semitism.

Is criticizing Saudi Arabia "Islamophobia"?

[-] uis@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Putin's propaganda wants russians to belive that criticizing Putin is rusophobia. This post looks exactly like Putin's propaganda.

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[-] A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 101 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Anti Zionism ≠ Anti Semitism.

Some people wants every body human rights to be respected, and dennounce crimes against humanity that Israel and Hamas commits, one being an alleged country and the other a terrorist organization.

The right for self determination of Palestinians (and to live) is not being respected by Israel, so, with confidence I will say Free Palestine!

[-] ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub 16 points 1 year ago

What's funny is that Palestinians are literally Semitic

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[-] Norgur@kbin.social 84 points 1 year ago

Israel is a state
Judaism is a religion

If one disagrees or opposes one, they don't oppose the other. I know that Israel has managed to spin the narrative that Israel and Judaism are the same and everyone opposing the state is basically the same kind of hateful asshole Adolf was, but that's just not true. We here in Germany have struggled a long time with that for obvious reasons. You couldn't call out Israel for doing wrong shit without being called a Nazi. In that past that is. What you've seen isn't "Antisemitism". It's opposition to some of the bullshit Israel is pulling that is the very same kind of bullshit Jews have been subjected to in the past. Or tell me: What's the difference between a Ghetto in 1700s Germany and the Gaza Strip? Correct, the 1700s Ghetto had less travel restrictions.

There is a great push in Israel to be proud of the history of unjust oppression and prosecution Jews have suffered for centuries and how awful being a victim of that was. There is this sense that together, as a nation, they finally have the means to safeguard themselves against shit like that. Yet, that very same nation pulls a swift 180 when it comes to palestinians. Pushing them back into Ghettos, depriving them of any form of economical way out, depriving them of means to get their own electricity, their own water. Paying them pittances for their jobs, restricting travel for them whenever possible. Now, as soon as those people act hostile (go figure), the "state of the oppressed" Israel responds with the military. "A little bombardment will keep them in check, right? How dare they hate us?!"

If the message all the Shoa museums, all the graveyards for the people killed in atrocities was really understood, neither the "West Bank" nor the "Gaza Strip" could exist without Israelites acting up against them.

Rant over.

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[-] FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 76 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This comment thread is an absolute fucking joke. You're all dumb as absolute fuck.

Both sides of this conflict are pieces of shit. There is no side "to blame." This conflict has been going on for about 100 years and both sides have committed human rights violation and heinous acts of violence.

If you actually want to blame someone, blame the fucking British and the Americans for manipulating both the zionists and the Palestinians to help win the world wars, and for promising them both the same land.

You're all wasting your time trying to to blame Israel or Palestine. Don't be so fucking lazy people. Read a god damn history book rather than basing your opinions on social media. Jesus...

[-] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 47 points 1 year ago

Guilty Killing civilians: Hamas, Israeli government.

Guilty of Genocide: Israeli government

People who don't deserve to get killed: Palestine civilians, Israeli civilians.

People who have claims to the land: both Palestine civilians and Israeli civilians (sorry the situation is fucked).

Fascist and helping each other gain power: Hamas, Netanyahu

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[-] Lilith_the_serpent@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Israel has been boxing in the Palestinians for those 100 years, slowly choking them out and forcibly removing them from their homes. Now, multiple generations later, millions of Palestinians are backed into a small corner of their ancestral land as they are still forcibly removed from their homes and murdered in the streets. This is a genocide... like it has been for the last 100 years. Israelis are the invading force. Why wouldn't the Palestinians fight back? Innocent people died, but that doesn't give the Zionists the all clear to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing.

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[-] Transcendant@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

blame the fucking British and the Americans

None of the ones who made those decisions are alive anymore. Are you going to dig up their coffins and shout at the corpses?

You make some good points though. However, we can absolutely blame actors at play today for things that are happening today. Hamas committed atrocities, now Israel is going in heavy handed and exacerbating the situation. Not sure why people find it difficult to state that. Hatred, I assume.

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[-] Kedly@lemm.ee 52 points 1 year ago

Yeah where the fuck is the antisemitism? Fuckin dogshit takes that think one side is clean where the other isnt? Yeah, plenty of that. But antisemitism itself? I havent seen it

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[-] frippa@lemmy.ml 47 points 1 year ago

Antisemitism ≠ antizionism, lemmy.ml (speaking from experience) has waaaaay harsher and stricter moderation that something like ee or world, they straight up hard-remove words from comments, an antisemite would be banned on sight.

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[-] atyaz@reddthat.com 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Me looking at all the genocide denying ethnostate apologists on lemmy 😥

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[-] WheatleyInc@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Why is everyone in the comments section oversimplifying this complex issue? Great reminder that that's what politics is now, blaming one side and naming the other side pure.

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[-] mathemachristian@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago

Where? Lemmy.ml usually cracks down on racists pretty hard report them when you see them

[-] ShunkW@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I stick to this instance, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is another person calling anyone who doesn't blindly support Israeli genocide efforts antisemitic.

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[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Lemmy.world go 30 minutes without making things up about other instances challenge.

Difficulty: impossible.

Whiniest instance by far. I get the hate for hexbear and grad, but ml is normal

[-] njinx@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

OP isn't from .world but ok

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this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
254 points (62.2% liked)

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