this post was submitted on 12 May 2025
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Image is from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists' recent article on Kashmir.


It looks like the spat between India and Pakistan could be dying down, due to a new ceasefire. As of the time of me writing this paragraph, it seems both sides want to maintain it (despite some reports of violations here and there).

Both sides have declared victory, which is completely expected given their mutual political parties and nationalist histories. It's a little harder to say which side has actually won, as both sides seem to have managed to shoot down aircraft and hit military bases. India has, in my opinion, had the more embarrassing moments, but international conflicts aren't cringe compilations. I feel no good-will towards Pakistan's comprador government, but it is at least nice to see Modi knocked down a few pegs. Regardless of the final technical victor, it's obvious that - if the ceasefire is maintained - who won are the hundreds of millions of people who won't have to live in fear of dying in nuclear hellfire.

This conflict is a good example of what multipolarity will truly entail. Countries that have been previously limited in their nationalist ambitions by American pressure will now take opportunities to revolt, sometimes against America itself, and sometimes against other countries in their regional neighbourhood. It's also why, as communists, our goals do not stop at multipolarity; it is merely the establishing act of a new era of agitation against peripheral and semi-peripheral capitalist countries that are forming powerful national bourgeoisie classes as the international American capitalists are forced away.


Last week's thread is here. The Imperialism Reading Group is here.

Please check out the RedAtlas!

The bulletins site is here. Currently not used.
The RSS feed is here. Also currently not used.

Israel-Palestine Conflict

If you have evidence of Israeli crimes and atrocities that you wish to preserve, there is a thread here in which to do so.

Sources on the fighting in Palestine against Israel. In general, CW for footage of battles, explosions, dead people, and so on:

UNRWA reports on Israel's destruction and siege of Gaza and the West Bank.

English-language Palestinian Marxist-Leninist twitter account. Alt here.
English-language twitter account that collates news.
Arab-language twitter account with videos and images of fighting.
English-language (with some Arab retweets) Twitter account based in Lebanon. - Telegram is @IbnRiad.
English-language Palestinian Twitter account which reports on news from the Resistance Axis. - Telegram is @EyesOnSouth.
English-language Twitter account in the same group as the previous two. - Telegram here.

English-language PalestineResist telegram channel.
More telegram channels here for those interested.

Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Examples of Ukrainian Nazis and fascists
Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Sources:

Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map. Their youtube channel has substantially diminished in quality but the map is still useful.
Moon of Alabama, which tends to have interesting analysis. Avoid the comment section.
Understanding War and the Saker: reactionary sources that have occasional insights on the war.
Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.
Simplicius, who publishes on Substack. Like others, his political analysis should be soundly ignored, but his knowledge of weaponry and military strategy is generally quite good.
On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent and very good journalist reporting in the warzone on the separatists' side.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.

Pro-Russian Telegram Channels:

Again, CW for anti-LGBT and racist, sexist, etc speech, as well as combat footage.

https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad ~ A few different pro-Russian people gather frequent content for this channel (~100 posts per day), some socialist, but all socially reactionary. If you can only tolerate using one Russian telegram channel, I would recommend this one.
https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
https://t.me/rybar ~ One of, if not the, biggest Russian telegram channels focussing on the war out there. Actually quite balanced, maybe even pessimistic about Russia. Produces interesting and useful maps.
https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense. Does daily, if rather bland updates on the number of Ukrainians killed, etc. The figures appear to be approximately accurate; if you want, reduce all numbers by 25% as a 'propaganda tax', if you don't believe them. Does not cover everything, for obvious reasons, and virtually never details Russian losses.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

Almost every Western media outlet.
https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.


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[–] Redcuban1959@hexbear.net 30 points 2 hours ago

The New York Times has released a detailed report on why Trump prematurely ended the bombing campaign on Yemen. The article states the following:

After 30 days of strikes, Trump wanted a status report on Yemen. The status report concluded that the U.S. had failed to achieve air superiority, that drones were being shot down at an unprecedented rate, and that the U.S. had spent over a Billion dollars in the first month alone.

Omani officials told Steve Witkoff that the U.S. would be offered a way out of the campaign, but only if Trump agreed to direct talks with Yemen that did not include Israel, to which the President agreed. Saudi Arabia provided the U.S. with a list of 12 Houthi officials to assassinate, in order to 'cripple' the Yemeni movement. None were killed.

Several F-16 and F-35 jets were almost shot down by Houthi air defenses, marking a significant threat to American lives and elevating worries about a possible future confrontation with Iran. The U.S. used many advanced precision ammunitions, including bunker busters, but it had very little effect on Houthi infrastructure.

U.S. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth tried to convince Saudi Arabia and the UAE to sponsor a renewed ground offensive in Yemen, but they declined.

  • Telegram
[–] LoveYourself@hexbear.net 13 points 2 hours ago

Martyrs and injured after a zionist airstrike on Nasser Medical Complex in central Khan Younis, southern Gaza.

One of the martyrs is journalist Hassan Islayeh who was receiving treatment for injuries sustained from a previous attack.

https://t.me/QudsNen/163896

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 18 points 3 hours ago (1 children)
[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 9 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Foolishness, the Turks are just gonna escalate now without opposition

Anti Kurd bashing is a major plank of right-wing Turkish parties, they're not gonna give that up just because the PKK disarms "The terrorists are still armed in Iraq" is what's coming next

What a shitshow

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 6 points 1 hour ago

Even if they don't escalate it's still over for any hope of a Kurdistan without an armed organisation that will form the base of it as a state.

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 18 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

US Dollar appreciated a bit but not anywhere enough to offset much of the impact of the tariffs, still down around 6% from the Trump election pre-inaugration peak.

[–] Biddles@hexbear.net 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Depreciation isn't a bad thing necessarily

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 25 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (3 children)

Many people are rightfully angry about Trump’s assault on public institutions, but I believe the endgame is far more sinister than “fascists are dumb and fell for the DEI bullshit so they sabotage their own country”.

One question I’ve seen some people raising is: why don’t the bourgeois elites do something about it? Why let Trump ravage cut off billions of university fundings and cleaving off many government agencies that serve actual purposes, to the detriment of even the bourgeois class itself?

Well, if you follow the trajectory to its endpoint, it all makes sense. The bourgeois class is poised to reap the ultimate benefits of Trump’s misbehavior.

Many people can see the goal of ultimately privatizing these government agencies, but this is not just a mindlessly forced privatization of public institutions. Instead, it is to foment a new narrative about the perils of nationalization.

As people are becoming increasingly critical about billionaires and private capital owning large chunks of the economy, left wing narrative on nationalization has gained traction in recent years, at least in reasserting control on critical sectors.

In my opinion, Trump has correctly demonstrated the true unfettered authority of the federal government. Yes, the executive branch can really do all that and get away with it, in spite of what the Democrats tell you about the complex rules and Republican obstructionism. The federal government is so powerful that it can literally tax away all the wealth of the billionaire class and get away with it. Not even Harvard backed by multi-billion private capital can possibly fight the authority with the power of the purse. The government can end homelessness and give free universal healthcare in a moment’s notice.

These would have infinitely improved the lives of the people and curbed the political and economic influence of the wealthy elites. But.. there is a BUT:

What if the government use its authority for nefarious purposes, like Trump is doing right now?

“What, you want universities to be funded by the government? Have you seen what Trump has done? Do you want billions of funding to be abruptly cut off just because right wingers are scared of DEI? That’s why you need FREE MARKET! No matter your ideology, there will be someone willing to finance your institutions. Free market is DIVERSITY! Nationalization is authoritarianism where absolute power will absolutely corrupt!”

I think when Trump’s shenanigans finally end, a new wave of criticisms against the excess power of the federal government would emerge. This will lead to further decentralization of its authority, and pave the way towards mass privatization with consent manufactured.

I haven’t seen people from the left talking about this and I think that if the left is serious, they have to start conceiving of counter-narratives, or else they’ll just be caught off guard by this new phase of capitalism, once again. Remember when the American left completely failed to achieve any concession on healthcare during Covid because they were so afraid of being seen as touting right wing conspiracy theories? Same principles here.

[–] sisatici@hexbear.net 4 points 54 minutes ago* (last edited 50 minutes ago)

I think one thing we all are missing is that thinking state is slave to the capital. State serves capital but at the end of the day, state is the only owner of legitimate violence. Capital donates to the parties so parties don't fuck them over when they win because state stil has the power. Parties won't destroy their own power

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think they needed consent manufacturing. Consent has been manufactured long time ago. They always had the rhetoric of "using your power to do stuff is dictatorship, less you use power, less of a dictator you are". They could have destroyed the power after winning with this rhetoric. Besides, they could have done it even without manufactured consent

[–] carpoftruth@hexbear.net 8 points 2 hours ago

I'm not sure what exactly you're flagging that you think "the left" is missing. The DNC are feckless controlled opposition, presumably that isn't the left you mean. For anyone else, it's pretty clear that Trump/modern republicanism is a continuation of starve the beast for everything but the security-carceral state, which ends in privatization of social services and exclusion of who those services are available and accessible to.

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 15 points 3 hours ago

trump is making a great case for dual-power and anarchism

Some combat footage for today.

A Russian Iskander-M missile strike destroyed a US-built “HIMARS” launcher near the Sumy oblast settlement of Nagornovka: https://s5.cdnstatic.space/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/himarslauncher.mp4

Russian drone operators continue repelling Kiev regime attacks along the Kursk/Sumy border: https://news-pravda.com/world/2025/05/10/1315379.html

Russian FPV drone operators destroyed more US-built “Bradley” infantry fighting vehicles, M113 armored personnel carriers, and a German-built “Marder” infantry fighting vehicle that recently tried attacking Dzerzhinsk in the Donetsk People’s Republic: https://s5.cdnstatic.space/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/fpv.mp4?_=3

Another collection of recent Russian FPV drone strikes near the Dnepropetrovsk oblast border: https://odysee.com/@Support4Z:b/%F0%9F%93%BD%EF%B8%8F-A-%F0%9F%87%AC%F0%9F%87%A7-%F0%9F%87%AB%F0%9F%87%B7,---Russian-FPV-drones-operating:e

[–] companero@hexbear.net 27 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

NYT: Why Trump Suddenly Declared Victory Over the Houthi Militia

Several American F-16s and an F-35 fighter jet were nearly struck by Houthi air defenses, making real the possibility of American casualties, multiple U.S. officials said.

A reminder that even the best stealth technology doesn't magically make planes undetectable.

Though perhaps the carrier's F-35 wasn't in the best condition.

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 20 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

F-16s have been fired on for months/years by Yemen, so not a new development there. No shootdowns though. F-35s being targeted is new though.

Yeah and as you say, stealth is about low observability, not literally invisible like the movies and documentaries make it out. The F-35s were carrying out quite risky missions given the air defence network that Yemen has, they were dropping lots of JDAMs. I suspect that the F-35s were even being used in place of the MQ-9 Reapers for loitering, intelligence gathering and targeted assasinations after a bunch of MQ-9s got shot down, they even got the Hellfire missiles out on the aircraft carrier, those are very short range. My best guess would be some sort of infrared guided missile was used to target the F-35 from the rear, aimed at it's exhaust. F-35s have a largely reduced infrared signature compared to non stealth aircraft, but the engine exhaust is a weak point compared to the F-22 and especially the B-2, F-117 and YF-23 prototype. Infrared guided surface to air missiles were the biggest cause of losses and damage to NATO aircraft during the Gulf War outside of AA fire. 25 aircraft lost or damaged because of infrared guided SAMs. And Yemen does have the Iranian Sephyr 14 ground based infrared search and track system.

The New York Times article is not that great writing wise, they confuse complete air supremacy with air superiority (the US had air superiority since day one of the campaign and it's very puzzling to suggest otherwise), and they fail to mention the anti ship ballistic missile attacks that took place on the USS Harry Truman when it lost those two F-18 aircraft.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 23 points 4 hours ago
[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 36 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

Reports that JNIM terrorists have taken over Djibo a town of 60k population in Burkina Faso. Image is inside government building with Traore's portrait on the wall.

Quite a few videos of fighting with french shouting on Telegram coming out

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 21 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

The situation in Burkina Faso is quite bad, the government is losing ground to the terrorists, who control around 40-50% of the country now.

The Traore government is surrounded on three sides, but they still control the most populous area in the capital and surroundings. Djibo was de facto encircled by the terrorists for a while now.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 21 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't think this is accurate or the "control" of territory JNIM have in this mapping is tenuous at best. To my knowledge Burkina Faso gov still controls all of their mines, and those are scattered around a lot of the zones that this map labels as JNIM controlled territory.

I don't think it's JNIM controlled territory. I think it's just territory that JNIM is known to be operating in but they don't have control.

Here's a map of Burkina Faso gold mines for example:

This picture of taking over a government office in Djibo is the first evidence I've seen of actually taking over control of territory.

[–] KnownUnknownKnower@hexbear.net 26 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Something’s going on in Tripoli, no idea what though

[–] Sebrof@hexbear.net 4 points 2 hours ago

Here are some news sites I found and some context. Others much more knowledgeable than I can provide a better summary, but I hadn't seen a response yet so thought I'd give it a shot.

After the Second Civil War, a unity government called the Government of National Unity (GNU) came to power. This is the government of the prime minister Abdul Hamid Dbeibeh

According to their own website

The “Stability Support Apparatus” [SSA] was established by decision of the Presidential Council No. 38 of 2021, and Mr. Abdelghani Belqacem Khalifa was assigned to head the apparatus.

And as Reuters puts it,

SSA is under the Presidential Council, which came to power in 2021 with the Government of National Unity (GNU) of Abdul Hamid Dbeibah through a UN-recognised process

It appears to be a militia under the GNU. Perhaps that isn't the correct framing though and others can provide a correction.

There is also a rival government, the Government of National Stability which is backed by the House of Representatives and is based in the east of the country. This government hasn't appeared in the stories I've seen yet, but it may come into play eventually.

The current events surround the death of the leader of the SSA


Armed groups clash in Libyan capital

Head of UN-backed government’s security force reportedly killed

According to Al Jazeera, Abdul Ghani al-Kikli, head of the UN-backed government’s Stability Support Apparatus (SSA), was killed in a firefight in southern Tripoli. The incident reportedly took place inside the headquarters of the 444th Combat Brigade after “failed negotiations.”

Local media reported fighting and troop movements in the Abu Salim and Mashrou neighborhoods. Al Jazeera cited witnesses as saying that soldiers from the 111th and 444th brigades stormed the SSA headquarters, with gunfire and explosions heard in various parts of the city.

According to Al Arabiya, militias from Misrata and other cities began moving toward Tripoli last week

The SSA was established in 2021 by the Government of National Unity to maintain security in the capital and combat organized crime.

Libya descended into civil war in 2011 after a NATO-backed uprising that resulted in the death of longtime ruler Muammar Gaddafi.

The last major clashes between militia groups in Tripoli occurred in August 2023, leaving 55 people dead and nearly 150 injured. In February 2025, State Minister for Cabinet Affairs Adel Juma survived an assassination attempt.

Heavy gunfire, clashes in Libya’s Tripoli after killing of militia leader

The United Nations has called for urgent de-escalation in Libya’s capital, Tripoli, as rival gunmen exchanged fire in the city’s southern districts after the killing of a powerful militia leader

Al Jazeera’s Malik Traina, reporting from Libya’s Misrata, said security sources had confirmed the killing of Abdel Ghani al-Kikli, widely known as “Gheniwa”, who is the head of the powerful Stability Support Authority (SSA) militia.

Al-Kikli was one of the capital’s most influential militia leaders and had recently been involved in disputes with rival armed groups, including factions linked to Misrata.

SSA is under the Presidential Council, which came to power in 2021 with the Government of National Unity (GNU) of Abdul Hamid Dbeibah through a UN-recognised process.

Traina said that at least six people have been wounded, although it remains unclear whether they are security force members or civilians.

The GNU’s media platform said early on Tuesday that the Ministry of Defence had fully taken control of the Abu Salim neighbourhood.

Two others told Reuters that the gunfire was echoing all over their neighbourhoods of Abu Salim and Salah Eddin.

State of emergency declared in Tripoli after senior officer’s death

Violent clashes erupted in Tripoli after the death of security officer Abdul Ghani Al-Kalaki, prompting Libya’s GNU to declare a state of emergency.

The officer, Abdul Ghani Al-Kalaki, believed to be affiliated with GNU security forces, was killed under unclear circumstances. His death sparked widespread violence in several districts of Tripoli, with residents reporting sustained gunfire and explosions as rival armed factions exchanged fire throughout the night

Mitiga International Airport — Tripoli’s main airport — announced a full suspension of air traffic. Incoming flights were diverted to Misrata Airport, located east of the capital.

The unrest prompted the University of Tripoli to suspend all academic and administrative operations, including classes and examinations, until further notice. Several other institutions in the capital have also paused their services

[–] QuillcrestFalconer@hexbear.net 68 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

Ahah trump at a press conference was like: what was I going to do? Not accept a free plane? We love free stuff.

Lmao

[–] Parsani@hexbear.net 23 points 5 hours ago

If they offer you a plane. Take the plane. If tomorrow they ask "what are you doing, I gave you a plane?" say "you idiot, why would you give me a plane"

zizek solidarity trump-drenched

[–] MaxOS@hexbear.net 30 points 7 hours ago

fair enough

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 43 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

Both sides have declared victory, which is completely expected given their mutual political parties and nationalist histories. It's a little harder to say which side has actually won, as both sides seem to have managed to shoot down aircraft and hit military bases

The only evidence so far is of Indian aircraft being shot down, haven't seen any evidence of Pakistani aircraft being shot down.

As far as a technical breakdown, on the first engagement, Pakistan shot down four Indian aircraft (2x Rafale, 1x Su-30MKI, 1x MiG 29) using their Chinese HQ-9 air defence system and J-10C fighter aircraft with no losses, while India achieved a few stand-off strikes on "terrorist targets". Overall I think Pakistan won that engagement, India hit a very limited amount of targets at a very high cost. In hindsight this makes sense, Pakistan has more AWACS aircraft and fighter aircraft with AESA radars. See first, shoot first. However, Indian aircraft should have never been in a position to be shot down, given that they were carrying out stand off strikes, this suggests an poorly planned or ill disciplined approach.

During the second engagement, India hit a large amount of military targets in Pakistan with standoff counterforce strikes, and Pakistan responded with their own counterforce stand off strikes. The engagement was quite disproportionate, with India hitting substantially more targets than Pakistan. In hindsight this makes sense, as the Indian Air Force has substantially better and more diverse stand off strike options: subsonic stealth cruise missiles in Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG, supersonic cruise missiles in BrahMos/P-800 Oniks and Air Launched Ballistic Missiles (ALBM) in Rudram-II and ROCKS. The Pakistani Air Force's conventional stand off capability is quite limited by comparison, with only the CM-400AKG ALBM as an option, the Raad subsonic stealth cruise missiles are nuclear only, leading to Pakistan relying a lot on their rocket troops with the Fatah 1 GMLRS and Fatah-2 Short Range Ballistic Missiles. India also has superior air defence compared to Pakistan, in the S-400 vs the HQ-9. Despite exaggerated claims by both sides, neither side lost aircraft or high level air defence systems in this engagement, but the air defences on both sides also failed to intercept quite a few of these stand off weapons, even if India's air defence faired better. (Pakistan managed to intercept 1 SCALP-EG and 1-2 BrahMos). Pakistan lost a few radars seperate of their air defence systems. Overall India won this second engagement, hitting a lot more targets than Pakistan, and learning their lessons from the previous engagement with no losses in aircraft, as expected from a stand off strike mission.

This conflict is a good example of what multipolarity will truly entail. Countries that have been previously limited in their nationalist ambitions by American pressure will now take opportunities to revolt, sometimes against America itself, and sometimes against other countries in their regional neighbourhood.

The USA still brokered the ceasefire after receiving concerning intelligence, reportedly around potential Indian strikes on Pakistani nuclear forces. The US still very much acted as the "world police".

Ceasefire After 4 Days: Inside Story Of How India-Pakistan Reached Agreement-NDTV

Shortly after the [Indian] strikes, Indian intelligence agencies detected high alert messages flashing across Pakistani defence networks indicating a belief that India might next target Pakistan's nuclear command and control infrastructure.

Strategic installations in Rawalpindi, including offices linked to Pakistan's Strategic Plans Division, reportedly heightened security protocols. It was at this juncture that Pakistan reached out to the United States for urgent intervention.

According to government sources, US officials had already been in contact with both sides in anticipation of escalating tensions. But the alert around strategic assets led Washington to step in more decisively.

At least one explosion took place near a known Pakistani nuclear forces facility, so it doesn't appear to have been a bluff, even if the source of this above information is NDTV.

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 31 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Apparently China is now offering to sell Pakistan the J-35 (A stealthy 5th generation analogue to the F-35 for those who don't know) in light of the success of the PAF.

Meanwhile, Israeli media and military brass are shitting bricks because another regional power has access to these proven Chinese air superiority assets:

Egypt.

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 20 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (2 children)

I think J-35s would only be sold to Pakistan if India get F-35s, or whatever European equivalent to the F-35 comes out a decade in the future. I can't see China proactively pulling the trigger here.

J-10Cs went over to Egypt for a joint military exercise between China and Egypt, Egypt does not operate them yet, though they could in future. Egypt does operate the Rafale though and F-16C block 50/52 aircraft.

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 18 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

Yup. Bad source. They do however have HQ-9Bs which were involved in at least one dead Indian jet.

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 13 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Yeah an HQ-9 system, known as HIMADS in the Pakistani military, did get a kill according to them. Unknown what variant.

But building on your comment, what China should focus on is better high level specialised air defence and standoff weapons in the Pakistani context, that's what they need more than J-35s. Pakistan did well in the air superiority mission with the J-10C, more than enough to match the Rafale. While neither system performed great, failing to protect military targets, the Russian made S-400 on the Indian side did outperform the Chinese made HQ-9 on the Pakistani side based on the disproportionate second exchange, with limited evidence of interception of BrahMos and SCALP-EG. The Chinese equivalent to the S-300V, in the HQ-18, better be real.

The Pakistani Air Force also needs more stand-off weapons, having one ALBM type in the inventory, and subsonic cruise missiles reserved only for nuclear forces, and no supersonic missiles, is a big drawback, which led to Pakistan relying on their not so great ground based rocket artillery and short range ballistic missile arsenal for a majority of stand-off counterforce strikes. They were completely outmatched by India here. That's not sustainable as a deterrence posture versus India, nevermind in an actual war. In a tit for tat counterforce stand off strike exchange, India wins every time.

Stealth from the J-35 would enable a more traditional air campaign to be carried out, but that requires flying into Indian airspace (which is a very hard sell for political reasons in the Pakistan-India context), but stand off counterforce capabilities are a more pressing concern for deterrence I think. Got to learn to crawl, then walk, before you can run. While the Pakistani Air Force is very much ready to run/already running in an air superiority context, they are currently crawling in a strike mission context.

[–] geikei@hexbear.net 10 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

nah land based j-35 variant (seen in the air show this year and actualy marketed to Egypt as well this month -they brought some mock up at least-) will most likely be sold to Pakistan in the nearish future and to whoever else is interested eventualy. China likes and plans around the j-20 more for the theater its interested and it has already been testing and recieving the carrier based j-35 variant . So the land based J-35 variant is basicaly made to be exported. Maybe 1-2 countries like Algeria opt for the Su-57 if Russia manages actual production but for everyone else locked out of the f35 program , j35 will be an option given time. I doupt China cares too much and they will have their 6th gen platforms entering service before Europe manages a 5th gen program either way

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 7 points 5 hours ago

I doupt China cares too much and they will have their 6th gen platforms entering service before Europe manages a 5th gen program either way

Very true, and a big letdown for Europe. China and the USA are moving onto 6th gen, while Europe can't even get a 5th generation aircraft off of the PowerPoint.

[–] Gucci_Minh@hexbear.net 26 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

However, Indian aircraft should have never been in a position to be shot down, given that they were carrying out stand off strikes, this suggests an poorly planned or ill disciplined approach.

From the rumours, the original commander during a previous sortie saw the readiness levels of the PAF and called off the operation, after which he was called a coward and replaced with a yes man who would commit to the attack.

Additionally, the PL-15Es that Pakistan has may have actually been the un-nerfed 300km range PL-15 China uses domestically, which means unless India had prior intelligence of this that they might have underestimated the range at which they were vulnerable.

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