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submitted 7 months ago by Hydrogen to c/android
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[-] SpeakinTelnet@sh.itjust.works 116 points 7 months ago

In other words, you might not want to trust them because they killed off a Pixel Pass that 25 people signed up for, a Google Podcasts app that was basically a browser in an app shell that was given a proper replacement, a niche business presentation screen in Jamboard, and Stadia…freaking Stadia. They gave you all of your money back and let you keep the controller, guys.

It's not a good look when right off the bat it dismisses what is valid concerns by treating the opposition like they're just whining.

[-] blayde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 7 months ago

For real I was going to say this reads like a Google marketing AstroTurf. Just watched the linked MKBHD video and it's not unfair; definitely not "weird"

[-] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 17 points 7 months ago

The thing is, google guarantees 7 years of support, they can't cancel that. The services they closed had no promise on the longevity

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 18 points 7 months ago

In 2015 Google said "With Google Photos, you can now back up and store unlimited high-quality photos and videos for free". This is no longer true, even considering their vague corporate speak promise of "unlimited high-quality". By Google's own wording within the Google Photos app the options are "Original quality" or "Storage Saver". There is no high-quality unlimited option.

But it's not even about explicit promises. It's about the constant erosion of user trust. Having to read into the details and interpret marketing vs legal speak does nothing to alleviate that Google has done this to themselves.

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[-] Drinvictus@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 7 months ago

Stadia was amazing. I blame everyone but Google on its demise. You could literally play CP 2077 without a console but people still stuck to PlayStation and Xbox. Google handled the shutdown so well. I played around $500 worth of games got the money back. Kept two controllers and bought a steam deck with that money

[-] LastYearsPumpkin@feddit.ch 16 points 7 months ago

Cloud gaming is bad for history. If the game was only released for the cloud, and that game is shut down, or the cloud service shuts down, that game is gone forever.

They want to push it, because it gives them control over every aspect of the experience. They know everything you do in the game, you can't mod it, you can't pirate, you can't play offline, you can't do anything unless they say you can.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 11 points 7 months ago

You should blame me then. Once I saw that Google wasn't going to honor steam library on stadia, and then charge full price for games on stadia, I noped out and never signed up.

I say this is a cloud gamer who uses G-Force now, and shadow. I was their target demographic. And they're pricing model just noped me out of it

[-] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Once I saw that Google wasn't going to honor steam library on stadia

That is such a weird complaint.

Google doesn't own Steam. Google has nothing to do with Steam. Why would Google give you free games just because you purchased those same games on a competing platform?

Are you also complaining that Sony isn't honoring your Steam library on the PlayStation? Are you complaining that Microsoft isn't honoring the Steam library on the XBox?

Heck, are you complaining that Steam isn't honoring the Nintendo Switch library on the Steam Deck?

I mean: what gives?

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

That's a good question. In my view Google was selling remote compute, remote graphics rendering, and charging a subscription fee for that. Just like GeForce now. Remember GeForce now and shadow, we're both remote game streaming platforms that existed before stadia.

So Google comes along and says hey for a little bit more money than GeForce now, we're going to let you render and stream games from our data centers. Just like GeForce now just like shadow.

Unlike those other platforms, you can't bring your own library, you have to also buy the games from us, at full retail price. Even if the game is cheaper on steam.

So it was both a subscription service, and a wall garden with higher than normal prices.

It's like subscribing to Netflix, and also having to buy the movies to watch. Pick your lane Google

Anyway I understand your position, I'm just trying to articulate as a cloud gamer at the time stadia came out, I was enthusiastic, but disappointed with their pricing model which didn't seem competitive.

I think their options were to a, charge a monthly subscription, and allow people to bring their own libraries, like the steam library.

Or b. Charge for games, and then stream for free.

Doing both puts them in a significant market disadvantage, and I didn't want to own games that were tied to a Google platform, because Google has a long storied history of shutting down platforms after a few years. I didn't want to own games on a platform that would disappear. 100% Google's reputation prevented me from trying out their platform because I didn't trust them to be around for more than a few years

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[-] sysadmin420@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

Without a doubt it was amazing and me and my family were extremely sad, but in the end what is there to be mad about with stadia... I was part of something different, I was also a founder and played all the time. I think I owned all the games before I didn't 😂

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago

I just got a nice discount on my Pixel 8 preorder with my Stadia refund.

[-] HKayn@dormi.zone 3 points 7 months ago

Because the opposition frames the situation as Google never keeping any promise ever, in addition to refusing to acknowledge Google's positive precedent with Android updates.

If you view the Android update situation in isolation, you'll see that in the 10+ years Google has sold Pixel and Nexus phones, they have kept each one of their Android update promises.

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[-] stifle867@programming.dev 72 points 7 months ago

The article makes valid points but completely misses the real point. The real point, that has been pointed out every single time Google kills another product, is that every time they do that it erodes user trust. This point has been harped on for years, with more and more people agreeing with it the more and more Google kills products.

Is it any surprise then, that we're finally reaching a critical mass of users not trusting Google? It's less update this specific promise being untrustworthy, then the entire company being untrustworthy and this just happens to be the point that the dialogue had changed.

[-] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 65 points 7 months ago

not as if the Pixel 8 is just a small Pixel 8 Pro – it isn’t.

Could've fooled me.

The phones are nearly identical. The Pro has more RAM, a different secondary camera, and a third camera.

Apple absolutely should be (and is frequently) criticized for artificially locking features to certain models.

Obviously it's a good thing to have increased software support. 7 years of security updates is, on its own, a big deal. Google deserves credit for that. But they also deserve to be called out on their bullshit, same as Apple or any other company.

[-] rgb3x3@beehaw.org 3 points 7 months ago

What are you talking about? Apple should be lauded for at least having the phone tiers that they have. There's choice for every type of buyer. The 15 pro vs pro max is 3x zoom and 5x zoom. That's IT. You get the same features between each pro phone and get to choose the size that works for you.

Google has hamstrung the smaller phone with a worse screen, much worse camera system (video boost is locked to 8 Pro), no temperature sensor, slower wireless charging speeds, less RAM, gorilla glass Victus 1 vs 2, and an annoyingly glossy back glass.

I bought an 8 Pro for the camera system because I didn't want to be locked out of the better ultra wide and telephoto, but I wish I could have gotten that in a smaller size.

[-] kitonthenet@kbin.social 63 points 7 months ago

We’re now at the point where tech media has turned and will now have you believe Google should be questioned, is untrustworthy, and that their promise means nothing

This is worse than even the most insufferable apple fanboy.

Google! Untrustworthy!

God I can’t imagine why anyone would think that

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I've been involved with different companies setting up their cloud presence and negotiating prices, and while Google is a contender, they have to aggressively price themselves at the large corporate level because a lot of people in the room don't have trust in them. Why would we onboard to your platform if we don't think you're going to be around very long? It'll take us years to fully migrate, and then once we're in you could shut it down on a whim.

I'm not saying that's a deciding factor at the corporate level for people, but it is a discussion factor that other contenders like AWS or Microsoft azure do not have. So their retail graveyard definitely impacts them at every level

[-] fiercekitten@lemm.ee 9 points 7 months ago

God I can’t imagine why anyone would think that

This made me laugh out loud

[-] Nath@aussie.zone 44 points 7 months ago

In defense of Google, I have a first-gen Pixel that still gets unlimited Google Photos uploads.

This phone is seven years old and Google had kept its commitment that photo uploads would remain free for the life of the phone.

[-] tilgare@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 7 months ago

Also in defense of Google - I'm still grandfathered in to the $8 plan for YouTube premium because I signed up and have remained subscribed since 2013 when they offered promotional pricing at the beginning of Google Play Music. Years later, they added YouTube Red (now Premium) to the subscription which REALLY sweetened the pot. But they've never bumped my subscription price up.

[-] xts@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

Ah yes, let’s defend Google for not raising the price of features that were free to begin with like listening with screen off and background listening? Not really sure how much lower the bar can get here

[-] mojo@lemm.ee 11 points 7 months ago

I pay $0 for uBlock Origin lol

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[-] LastYearsPumpkin@feddit.ch 9 points 7 months ago

I signed up for the original family plan, and they raised my prices multiple times.

They also killed off YouTube premium light.

I think you're only paying the original price cause of a glitch.

[-] eric@014450.xyz 3 points 7 months ago

Same here. At $8 it's an amazing value. I plan on keeping it until they kill off parts of it or raise the price.

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[-] Scrollone@feddit.it 4 points 7 months ago

I envy you. My OG Pixel has broken down :(

[-] Nath@aussie.zone 15 points 7 months ago

The Pixel hasn't left the house since 2018. All it has done since then is run SyncThing and upload the photos/videos taken by my current phones.

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[-] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 3 points 7 months ago

Be prepared to pay when it dies. I assumed it wouldn't count when I got a new phone. It does. So now they want me to sign up for a plan. Well, now they want me to pay more for a higher tier. I got a nas instead. I'm cancelling the plan.

[-] Nath@aussie.zone 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I forgot that I had years of free uploads from my Pixel 2. That eventually expired. But I never had to pay for those uploads.

I also had 100 extra GB for two years for being one of the first Google Maps guides, populating the map with the first photos of businesses etc. When that expired, I did have to start paying. Google are smart - they got me addicted to having all my files right there wherever I was. It's only $20ish per year for that tier, I have been happy to pay for it. I think this might be what happened to you. You may have had some sort of promotion that expired.

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[-] apotheotic@beehaw.org 32 points 7 months ago

This article is unintelligible. I don't see a single point being made. It's filled with whataboutism and making up arguments to debunk.

Google, apple, and Samsung are all untrustworthy. Google and apple also make some pretty good phones, albeit pricy ones.

[-] dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 7 months ago

Paraphrasing MKBHD: Buy the phone for what it has today, not what it might have tomorrow.

I'd believe the promise of 7 years of updates from any other company but definitely not Google. In the words of Logan Roy

[-] Markaos@lemmy.one 6 points 7 months ago

The thing is that they've clearly promised 7 years now, walking back on the promise would cause them massive issues with consumer protection agencies everywhere they sell - they might be toothless in the US, but Google also sells Pixels in Japan and the EU.

[-] RegalPotoo@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

For me, this kinda breaks both ways:

  • 7 years of security updates is a promise that my phone won't regress from where it was when I bought it - I typically buy a mid-ish range phone (currently running a Pixel 7a) when they are brand new, and run it for ~3 years before I start to want an upgrade. Lack of security updates usually forces the issue, so a phone with 7 years of security updates guarantees that I'll want to upgrade before I'm forced to, and will be able to pass the phone along to a relative. Where I am, a claim like "we will provide security support until X" is backed up by consumer law, so I'd be entitled to a full refund if they fail to meet that guarantee.
  • Buying a phone because the manufacturer promises "feature drops" or because you expect that a future version of the OS will have some amazing features you want is like buying a preorder game - you are a fool for trusting marketing without concrete details
[-] alphapuggle@programming.dev 23 points 7 months ago

So there are two arguments being made in this situation. The first is that because Google kills off services and products all of the time, that taking their word for a 7-year promise is foolish. In other words, you might not want to trust them because they killed off a Pixel Pass that 25 people signed up for, a Google Podcasts app that was basically a browser in an app shell that was given a proper replacement, a niche business presentation screen in Jamboard, and Stadia…freaking Stadia. They gave you all of your money back and let you keep the controller, guys.

C'mon guys they had a "proper replacement" and let you keep the controller! They're not all that bad! 👅🥾

I'll never forgive them for Google Play Music.

I do however believe they're going to stick to their word here though. They make the processor and the OS, it'd have to take some extreme ignorance to fuck that up. It's not like they're reliant on Qualcomm to release new drivers for the chip, one of the big reasons devices stop being updates.

[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

Fool me once shame on me. Fool me 154 times. Shame on you!

[-] TheControlled@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

What a fucking bootlicker.

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this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
151 points (83.6% liked)

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