this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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Example: Traffic Speed. Everyone always exceed the speed limit on highways. Why do we still have the limit? Like, either enforce it, or remove it. This stuff doesn't make sense at all.

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[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 99 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because it can be enforced selectively, and if everyone is guilty of something, anyone in particular can be harassed under the cover of a legal justification.

[–] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yep. And in some places, one can see the enforcement is against minoritites and other scape goats at a disproportionate level. This also has the "bonus" of being able to make one group look like they break the law much more often and are dangerous

Yep. In Switzerland not having your ID on you is an arrest-able offence. Of course, the police never check the ID of anyone white or who blends in.

But if you look brown / disabled, then they will check you…

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 61 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Aside from selective enforcement, some laws (like traffic laws) are there for your protection AND to establish liability if something goes wrong.

If the government sets the limit at 30 and everyone goes 50, when an incident occurs, nobody can sue the city for bad roads because everyone was going faster than the intended speed.

[–] monkeyman512@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Also establishes expectations. Every on the highway knows what the expected speed is. Going 30 in a 65 is way more dangerous than doing 75 when conditions allow.

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[–] MolecularCactus1324@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They exist just in case they need to crack down on you.

I always think of dog leash laws this way. In many places they aren’t enforced and the majority of dog owners let their dogs off leash. However, if the owner loses control of their dog and it gets into trouble, like biting someone or another dog, then the law can always say, you’re liable because your dog was supposed to be on leash.

I think the same goes for speeding and other laws. It basically puts liability on the lawbreaker if they take a certain risk. If nothing bad happens, fine. But, if something does, then it’s your fault.

[–] MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This has the unintended consequence of people not knowing about the law if it goes unenforced for a long time.

[–] Hoohoo@fedia.io 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Not knowing the law isn't an excuse before the law in most circumstances.

[–] MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub 10 points 1 week ago

Which makes this an issue since no one will go read the whole list of laws

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[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When minor things are against the rules which are selectively enforced, it means the authorities get to pick and choose who to punish based on whatever criteria they feel like, which gives them power.

[–] nieminen@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Which shines some light on how the black population (at least here in the US) gets charged with disproportionately more crimes.

It's very effective in keeping slavery via our private prison system running

[–] Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 29 points 1 week ago

You seem to be assuming that people would keep driving as they currently do if we removed speed limits entirely. I'd be willing to bet that this is not the case. Most drivers have a number in mind on how much they're willing to exceed the speed limit. For me that is 5 - 10kph, so if the limit is 60kph, then you're not going to catch me going 80. Without speed limits I probably would.

So why do we have such laws? Because they work. Not perfectly but to some extent.

[–] hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Everyone always exceed the speed limit on highways.

Is this some kind of American thing?

[–] Grappling7155@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Canada too. Sometimes it seems like the speed “limit” is actually the minimum most people are expected to go (if possible) on Ontario’s highways, especially the busiest ones. Enforcement is almost entirely done manually and barely exists, if it’s being done at all.

A lot of roads and highways are very over-engineered here with wide & forgiving lanes, with broad shoulders at the side. The actual speeds that can be accommodated in the design are far greater than the posted limit.

[–] hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago (3 children)
[–] Grappling7155@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

North American driving culture sucks. For the past 70 years cars have dominated at the expense of all other modes of travel. They’re deeply embedded into our culture, infrastructure, planning processes, transportation engineering, and daily lives. They have become synonymous with freedom of movement for a lot of people who can’t imagine any different way to get around. Speed limits and enforcement in their minds are seen as an infringement on their rights. It will be a long and uncertain process to enact change, ripe for disruption and setbacks, but the status quo isn’t working, we’ve hit the limits of cars’ ability to scale, and with the internet showing how things are in the rest of the world, some people are waking up to what’s possible when you aren’t dependent on cars to get around safely and reliably.

[–] IronKrill@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

To expand on what Grappling said, I'll give you an example. A few years ago the city repaved a decrepit section of road into a smooth and wide open road that is wide enough for 4 lanes but made into 2 wide ones with massive shoulders. There are no pedestrians on this road and you can comfortably go 80-100km/h. The speed limit they set? 50. While it's not every road, it is definitely a lot of roads that get treated like this. It results in getting very comfortable with breaking the speed limits because the speed limits are ~~stupid~~ not matched to the designs of the roads.

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[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago

In Canada, the speed limits are kind of designed for bad conditions. Because somehow, in the cities, many people are too stupid or stubborn to go below the speed limit in the snow.

So in clear conditions, the speed limit should be higher than it is.

Also, at least around where I live, the roads are designed to support higher speeds than the speed limits indicate. So we have roads designed for 50km/h, but the speed limit is 30km/h. 50km/h feels nore comfortable to drive.

Why don't we just redesign the roads to make them less comfortable to speed in? Well, how else are we going to issue tickets where officers can choose who gets fined, and sometimes even get to search a car out of the deal??

[–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 week ago

no idea where you're from, but it's true in many European countries too

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[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 week ago

It's so the police always have something they can stop you for.

[–] PanoptiDon@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

So you can selectively punish.

[–] heavydust@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 week ago (8 children)

expected ... traffic speed

You're not supposed to be speeding you know?

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[–] Kanzar@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 week ago (4 children)

This sounds like a distinctly cultural problem where the word 'limit' clearly doesn't mean very much to the population in question.

It's a limit, not a target, and certainly not a floor as some USAsians seem to treat it.

Here in Australia you can be fined for exceeding the limit by less than 10km/h. Yes, even if you are 1km/h over, and whilst this would probably get thrown out in court you'd still have to take time off to attend court.

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[–] Padit@feddit.org 14 points 1 week ago (3 children)

What is a speed limit on highways?

Confused greetings from Germany.

[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Speed limits are somewhat enforced in Germany. Just because you can floor it at times does not mean you can go 100 in a 50.

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[–] TheFogan@programming.dev 11 points 1 week ago

In general speed limits are enforced IMO, just within a certain level. IE yes everyone exceeds the speed limit... but typically by set amounts. IE I know myself I generally go 9 over the speed limit. I expect to get a ticket if I go 11-20 over the speed limit.

That being said, yeah the social construct is probably intentionally encouraged by cops, so that say when they are pulling over random minorities for an excuse to search the car, they have an automatic excuse for why they pulled them over.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

You're not expected to break them. For your example, you're not supposed to go over the speed limit. And it is, in fact, extremely easy to do so. Most people are fine with it. And, no, it's not impossible to do so. There is nothing forcing you to go faster for little to no gain and increased risk for you and other.

You expecting to go over tells something about you.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Practically no one actually drives at or below the speed limit in the US, especially on freeways. Whether or not you personally like this doesn't matter -- it's just how it is.

You're welcome to try it, but speeding is so pervasive in our culture that this will single you out and Ruggedly Individualistic Americans will get frothingly butthurt at you over it. Prepare to get tailgated, cut off, bullied out of your lane, stuff thrown at your car, etc.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It sounds like you're proud of your culture of not giving a crap about rules set to improve safety for everyone. On that account, I agree that we'll never see eye to eye about this.

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[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago

I haven't driven over the speed limit in a decade in the US and have anecdotally never experienced the behavior you're describing.

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[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

You expecting to go over tells something about you.

I don't drive, but every time I’m in my parent’s car, they drive the speed limit, then I see cars flying by on the highway, and I’m like wtf.

I double check the spedometer, it points at just below 60, the sign says speed limit is 60. How is everyone going so fast. They must be speeding.

Not just one or 2 cars. Like almost every car.

Edit: This is in the USA, the Interstate-95 / PA-NJ Turnpike btw.

[–] hangonasecond@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Textbook case of a cognitive bias. If you're going the speed limit, every car that passes you is speeding. You don't see all the other cars doing the speed limit.

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[–] RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm too German to understand what's here.

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[–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 week ago

People exceed the speed limit on highways, but usually not by a lot. If they exceed it by a lot, it is usually enforced, e.g. by speed cameras; but of course some people still sometimes get away with it, no enforcement of any law is perfect.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 6 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Do you think traffic speeds aren't enforced? Just because they can't do it effectively because they don't have the resources or man power doesn't mean they don't try.

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[–] lath@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Bureaucracy is a nightmare. There's national laws, local laws, technical laws, practical laws, petty laws, incompetent laws, minority laws, old laws nobody bothered to get rid of, potential laws for possible situations that might happen at some point in an imaginary future.. and so on.

Basically, it depends on who writes the law and why. All laws are subjective to humans, by humans and against anything that annoys the specific humans in charge at any given point in time.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 5 points 1 week ago

People do enforce the law. Just occasionally, but that's enough to scare 90% into submission

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago

Take jaywalking for example. Most people aren't going to be bothered by some woman crossing the street when no cars are around.

Is it worth a cops time who's within eyeshot to do anything about it? Waste of resources, she's not endangering anyone.

Same situation but cars are all over, some swerving to avoid or slam on their breaks because she blindly runs out. She gets hit or cars pile into each other.

Cops in eyeshot. Well the drivers certainly are not the ultimate cause of this accident.

That's my guess anyways.

[–] otacon239@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

Anecdotally, I’ve almost never get pulled over in traffic, but the one time I was pulled over, I was doing 76 in a 65 at 5 AM with no other cars on the road and otherwise driving completely fine.

I guess he was bored. Or an asshole. Or both.

Edit: Fixed my paradox

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[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

On the highways here, the original speed limit of 55 was to save our nation's resources, not just "55 to stay alive" but also it was an efficient speed to maintain and still pretty fast.

Inside the city it works much better to make drivers feel unsafe going fast. Narrower lanes, speed bumps, roundabouts, etc.

In answer to your actual question - some laws are just old and haven't been unwound yet and others are used as pretext for profiling, police (or, more properly whoever is running them) like to be able to stop people for no reason but that can be seen as illegitimate, so they keep laws that everyone breaks, jaywalking, etc to have an excuse.

I don't think there is any one law everybody breaks really but also no person who has lived perfectly law abiding life.

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 4 points 1 week ago

Tools in the toolbox. You'll often hear about police saying they need more tools in the toolbox. What it means is they want to be able to enforce laws against somebody they don't like selectively.

If you enforce the speed limit religiously, especially around State capitals, the speed limits would rapidly change.

https://archive.org/details/threefeloniesday0000silv

If this topic interests you, I recommend reading three felonies a day, by Harvey silverglate

[–] jtb@feddit.uk 3 points 1 week ago

I don't think everyone always breaks the speed limit, but probably they do at some point during every journey. They knew this went they introduced the 20mph speed limit but they introduced it anyway because they thought it would reduce the average speed by a few mph.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/365789/do-20mph-speed-limits-save-lives-100-fewer-casualties-wales-sparks-uk-debate

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