Wtf is with all the blatant transphobia? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by EndlessApollo@lemmy.world to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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Edit I'm just gonna delete this soon. I posted it and made most of my comments while angry and looking for blood. yea a lot of cringe stuff got said on that post but I don't think my post is contributing anything to the sub other than anger, and possibly driving people away. Sorry to the people I snapped at, I hope yall have a good night🐕

The comments are full of people saying transphobic shit and op doubling down on his "making your trans partner feel dysphoric is fine" shit. He'll that pic was a re-upload from one of the mods here. What the fuck!!!! This is fucking 196 why are we out here defending blatant transphobia? People are in there calling trans people karens with a persecution complex, there's tons of defense of treating trans men like shit, "allies" telling trans people they're overreacting, all kinds of inexcusable shit. If this is how lemmy 196 is gonna be I hope this place crashes and burns

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[-] Dee@lemmy.world 90 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you think that's transphobic I feel sorry for your heart rate, it must never have time to rest. That's just somebody stating their sexual preference, albeit using insensitive wording. But sexual preferences against penis is not transphobic. It's just that, sexual preference, which is valid.

People are in there calling trans people karens with a persecution complex,

One person said this and the other comments rightfully jumped down their throat.

there’s tons of defense of treating trans men like shit

Not there was not.

"allies” telling trans people they’re overreacting, all kinds of inexcusable shit.

I'm trans and will say you're overreacting, a lot.

If this is how lemmy 196 is gonna be I hope this place crashes and burns

K, you can leave anytime you like. That's always been allowed.

[-] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Pick me !!! Pick me!!!! Hey I'm one of the good transes pick me!!!!!

If you didn't see the shit in that comments you weren't looking hard enough. Op openly admitting their abusive tendencies and lots of people saying that's OK, that trying to make a trans partner feel dysphoric is just a"preference ". Fuck off with your internalized transphobia, assuming you even are trans and not just some 14 yo 4chan edgelord who wants to own the transes or whatever

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago

I had the first comment in that post, I saw every comment thereafter. You're making shit up about what happened in those comments. Or I guess that's just how your warped view of reality interpreted it. Yikes.

I used to be like you, angry at the world and blaming everyone but myself. I hope you come to terms with your anger and learn to process that instead of lashing out at others like you're doing. Meditation helped me, best of luck.

[-] good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 1 year ago

Get the fuck off your high horse

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

I don't have a horse, can I borrow yours?

[-] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

And I hope you deal with your internalized transphobia. We need to stick together, not gang up on eachother to look good for The Cis™. Stop defending blatantly transphobic bullshit (or pretending it doesn't even exist in your case)

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

Who's ganging up on you? If anything you're the one ganging up by trying to flame the person in the screenshot for answering what their sexual preference is when someone asked them.

There was nothing that was "blatantly transphobic" other than the Karen comment that rightfully had several rebuttals shutting it down.

I don't stick with people just because of characteristics we share. They have to be a good person for me to want to support and be with them. You are not that, so I will not defend you just because we're both trans. Trans people can suck too, as you've shown.

[-] flicker@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

@Dee

I think that your impression that this user wants to be angry is correct, because the person they were mad at for being insensitive in their wording appeared in this very thread an hour ago and made themselves available to speak to the person calling you a Pick Me and being rude, but the user chose to continue arguing with you, rather than address the (IMO, reasonable) response of the original 'offender.'

I agree that the wording was insensitive but when the user in question clarified their POV, as far as I can tell, they were still being reasonable. It's telling that the OP chose to continue to attack you further rather than engage with the original 'offender.'

I don't think further engagement here will be beneficial to you, or the OP, though obviously you're free to do as you wish. I hope you have a lovely day.

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

You're absolutely right, I guess I just wanted to inject some sanity into this mess. But I'm running into Brandolini's Law over and over again. If these people want to be angry I guess I should let them. I hope you have a lovely day as well. Thanks for the virtual hand on the shoulder haha

[-] good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm sure when a cis guy murders another trans person under the "trans panic defense" the one news station reporting on it will put in the eulogy that "they were always civil and 'one of the good ones'" just after their deadname.

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Where in the fuck did that come from?? This has nothing to do with violence against trans people, this has nothing to do with dead naming. I know you seem to be angry but stay on topic.

This is about a cis man who was asked if he would date a trans man, and the comment section that happened after. Nothing else.

He said he would date a pre-op trans man, because he is not attracted to penis and is attracted to breasts. He recognized that it wouldn't be an easy relationship due to the dysphoria most trans men feel about those two areas, therefore he likely would not end up dating a trans man. He used not the best wording to express this. The comments were mainly in agreement that it was not particularly transphobic. A few comments in the post were transphobic and were then rightfully flamed by the replies. Now here we are.

[-] good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago

Yeah I wonder where that came from. It's not like the "genital preferences" discussion is preamble to the "not disclosing your trans/genital status is tantamount to rape" discussion. NOPE NO SIREE.

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

it's not like the “genital preferences” discussion is preamble to the “not disclosing your trans/genital status is tantamount to rape” discussion.

Not when they're directly asked what their sexual preferences are it's not?? Somebody asked him what his sexual preferences were, how is a cis person supposed to honestly answer that question if any time they do people like you accuse them of being transphobic?

I'm not saying that's not an issue it's just wildly unrelated to the topic at hand.

[-] good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He disclosed his sexual preferences - women.

Genital preferences aren't sexual preferences. Genitals are like any other physical attribute. Nobody is saying you can't have a genital preference, that'd be like saying you can't prefer one hair color over another. The problem is genital preferences are widely used as a shield and a dog-whistle to discredit and derail discussions about trans people in a sexual context.

Gross ass comments about women aside (femininity = solely secondary sexual characteristics apparently), the problem people have with the original comment is that he doesn't see trans men as men, he literally admits to seeing them as women-lite. That's the problem.

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

he literally admits to seeing them as women-lite.

Checks original comment

Do you have some alt-text I don't see or something? You're not even trying to make a point at this stage, you're just arguing semantics. Apologies if the exact sentence structure isn't to your liking. The dude was just answering a question he was asked. Everyone already admitted that he could've used better word choice, myself included. That does not make him transphobic. You and OP are both being utterly ridiculous to conflate this into something it's clearly not. Nobody was attacking trans people, or specifically, trans men in those comments other than the comments that were already pointed out and addressed.

[-] good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Do you always require context to be written out or is it just in this instance?

To the question "...Straight guy... are you attracted to women.... or to femininity?"

OP answered

I like boobs and pussy That’s the definition of “straight guy” right?

and then answered the follow up question

Would you date a trans guy

with

pre-transition? Sure I don’t like dicks though

If straight men are attracted to women and OP claims to be straight but is okay with pre-transition trans men, he doesn't consider them men.

Is that plain enough for you or are you going to keep flailing around for yet another way to paint anyone who takes issue with blatant transphobia as irrational?

This is also entirely before the conversation about the problems surrounding "women = pussy+boobs and men = penis".

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Ah, so you're missing a ton of additional context to their views or choosing to actively ignore it. That's fine. Means our conversation is over since that's not a position I have any chance of breaking through to. Not that I thought I had any chance in the first place. I guess these rebuttals were more for the lurkers since I knew this was a brick wall conversation from the onset. If you want to be angry at everything then you're certainly welcome to, it's your life. Best of luck with that though.

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

I'm not particularly attracted to any gender; I have no gender preference. I am however exclusively attracted to female sex organs.

The original thread asked "Hey, straight man, are you attracted to women or to femininity?" I didn't answer that question because I think the question was too vague. I think "straight" means you like female sexual characteristics. Pre-op trans man, post-op trans woman, cishet woman, they all qualify.

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It was clear to me that the boob part was in jest, just a joke about the fact that he is attracted to boobs while someone who is trans would not want them. Op made it clear that they would not want to be with someone who is a trans guy because they would be incompatible. Them saying this does not mean they would abuse a trans partner.

I do agree though that many of the other comments are transphobic. I'm dissapointed that many of them were upvoted, it's a shame to see this community think like that.

[-] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

"you don't understand it's just a joke bro" FUCK OFFFFFFFFFF

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

Please actually read my comment, including the edit since I hit send early by accident. I don't feel that this comment was transphobic, but I do feel that many of the other actions in that thread are.

[-] venorathebarbarian@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago

I don't get it?

The OP was expressing how awkward sex would be with him being majorly attracted to boobs while the trans guy hates their boobs.

I don't think he literally meant he'd SAY THAT, especially on purpose.

Mostly I think he was saying it wouldn't be the best idea for him to date a trans man cuz he's not into dudes. He was just trying to be funny and paint a picture of awkwardness to explain why.

That's my reading of it, anyway.

[-] Nerorero@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 1 year ago

Could you at least give some context?

[-] Dee@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago

The person in the screenshot was being asked if they'd date a trans man, they gave that response. Which is to say yes, but that they have a sexual preference for femininity which would make it difficult as most trans men are dysphoric about their feminity especially pre-op. He said it in not the best word choice but the sentiment is not transphobic. Big "he a little confused but he got the spirit" energy.

OP is going to tell you a bunch of other shit. Looks like the post might've been removed but what they're saying was happening in those comments did not happen. They just seem to be a very, very angry person.

[-] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Person who made the reported comment said that in response to being asked if he'd date a trans guy, in a thread asking what straight guys are attracted to. Could have just been badly worded, but considering op's reaction to being called out, the other transphobes in the thread, and op agreeing with them, I'm gonna say no

Here's a pic of one of the worse fuckers in those comments, I would've linked more in the post but idk how to link more than one. Op agreed with this take and said 6 out of 7 of his trans women friends were just unreasonably mad about their problems

[-] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 22 points 1 year ago

Can you explain what you find offensive about the comment reported screenshot you linked above? How is someone supposed to express that they would not want to date a trans guy? Or are you saying that the fact that they wouldn't date a trans guy is the problem?

To be perfectly honest, you kind of seem to be exemplifying exactly what the person in the screenshot you linked here is saying - that you're attacking someone for expressing a personal preference, and that you're labeling this person for criticizing that behavior. I'm trying to understand your PoV.

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago

I don't think the screenshot OP posted is transphobic, but this comment 100% is. Saying trans people are the "karens" of the lgbtq+ community is incredibly shitty.

[-] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 17 points 1 year ago

It certainly wasn't a good way for them to say it, but I just found it ironic that OP seems to be doing exactly what that post is claiming (some) trans people do.

While I don't agree with the statement as a whole, I do understand the general sentiment that they were trying to get across - it does feel sometimes like discussing trans issues is like walking on eggshells, where anything you say that isn't directly in agreement with their point of view is taken as a personal attack. (This is what I meant that it feels like OP is doing here.)

[-] catreadingabook@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Agreeing with priapus, no idea what OP is on about but the one here is in really poor taste. Saying generalized statements and trying to describe an entire community as if your experiences are universal, especially trying to paint the entire community in a negative light, is uneducated and weird.

It would be like saying, "I feel like men are dangerous and creepy. They seem to go out of their way to get offended when we tell them we don't want to talk to them. Like, I'm sorry some people in the country have made them feel like they need female attention, but they're hurting their own cause by insisting that they deserve sex all the time."

Maybe it's true about a subset of the group, and that's probably the subset you will see if you are exclusively browsing hateful content all the time. But a few real life conversations with real life people will show that those statements are barely accurate at all for the majority of them.

A more appropriate way to express themselves would have been centered on their own experiences - "I feel like I have to be careful expressing my views on trans people because I see people getting offended over innocuous questions," etc etc. Very very different tone.

[-] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

There's nothing wrong with just having those kinds of preferences, or with saying you have them in the right context, which this is. Op didn't do that though. He would totally date a trans guy, he just says he'd hate it and would try to make his bf feel dysphoric. Having a problem with that doesn't mean I'm a Karen or have a chip on my shoulder or any of that shit, I just like when people show basic fucking respect towards trans people and this "ally" doesn't seem to have any. He cares more about having trans friends and saying he's an ally than about listening to trans people and actually being one. He's prob a chaser tbh

[-] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's not what they said, though...? They were asked if they would date a trans guy, and they answered the question presumably honestly (that they would if they were pre-op), but then went on to say that they don't like penises and do like breasts, and that that would likely make a trans guy uncomfortable.

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thread was nuked, here's my response

The full comment, not just one cherry picked sentence

I hate to say it, but of the 7 trans women I've known, 6 have been like this. Everyone is the enemy, giant chip on the shoulder.

I mean, I get it. I grew up very poor, and for a long time any time I saw a rich person I wanted to deck them. Even if they did nothing wrong personally. Because my life was hell and they didn't have to go through it, and they're passively contributing to the system that made my life hell. So I hated them.

So yeah, I think trans people are just people, reacting to a hateful and cruel society in the way that any person would.

It is difficult to stay friends with someone like that. A lot of trauma. And collateral damage. I know, I lost friends over my issues.

Strangely enough of the 4 trans men I've known, none have been like this. Maybe they just internalized it.

[-] Sylaran@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Breathe

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hi, you had a comment deleted by moderators. I can see in my notifications "Good question, why don't you try answering it rather than..." but I can't see the rest.

Since there's no PMs available I created a magazine here where you can respond without getting banned/removed: https://kbin.social/m/Aesthesiophilia/t/228533/EndlessApollo

If you want

Edit: also anyone else who wants to cuss me out or something without being banned/removed please feel welcome, just don't spam

[-] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I'm on mobile and busy rn so I can't do that, I'll just copy and paste my comment here and come back later

Good question, why don't you try answering it rather than continuing to shit on the people you call yourself an ally to? If the answer is "I wouldn't date a non-op trans man" then just fucking say that instead of insinuating that you would date them and treat them like shit

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

I would totally date a pre-op trans man if they were okay with me liking their boobs.

Gotta be a pretty rare scenario, but if it happens, sure

There's a trans man who posts some nsfw pics that I follow, and his philosophy is "please enjoy my boobs while you can, bc as soon as I can afford it I'm cutting em off". If I knew him irl, I'd enjoy the boobs irl. But even then, he'd have to be pretty nonchalant to not get triggered or depressed by my appreciation of his feminine body, so I dunno if it could work out. Not to mention the more masculine he gets (hormones, surgery, etc) the less I'd be physically attracted to him. So definitely a short term thing.

[-] Alivrah@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Alright so, having read only the image OP posted and this comment here, I don't really think you're being transphobic at all, only expressing your sexual preferences, which is fine. No one should feel pressured or forced to "like" something they don't, specially in this context.

I get why people might get a bit nervous about the specific words you used, and maybe I didn't get to read something that might be deleted but...

I think you're ok.

"They would be straying away from what I personally find attractive, and the fact they could be uncomfortable with what I'd be attracted to would be something hard to deal with for both parties involved" is what I understood you meant.

[-] LeylaaLovee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 year ago

This is why we're saying it's transphobic. It doesn't sound like you view pre-op trans men as men. You're attracted to women, and that's fine, but trans men aren't women.